Our own GSA story - Page 2

Victor · 08-28-2007, 08:52 AM

My daughter and I both have our own psycologists/phychaitrists. Her's told her to "confront [me] with [her] feelings, and [i], being the 'parent' would tell [her] that [her] attraction isn't proper." Problem with that advice is that I wasn't ever "her" parent. I never changed her diaper, never rocked her to sleep or sang her lulabuys. Another man took care of all that instead....he, not me, was her "parent." I was just a secret sperm doner. His name is the one on her birth certificate, not mine. I didn't feel "parental" to her at all. But I did find myself extremely attracted to her in a way that I have never been attracted to anyone before. And when she confessed her own attraction to me, I confessed mine. Honesty seemed like a good start at the time.

At least my psychaitrist explained these feelings as a "bonding" process. His advice was simply "try not to let it go too far." Those feelings have not subsided or abated. They are as strong or stronger than when we first met.

When children are raised together in early childhood with their parents (whether genetically related or not), the affect of our natural sexual attraction is reversed by a form of imprinting known as the "Westermarck effect." This is what makes us see each other as part of a family unit and makes us see sexual relationships between those family units as "icky." Men who aren't allowed by their wives to care for the children, or who themselves don't see it as their shared responsibility to do so, run a risk of not developing this kind of imprinting. The same for the children of mothers who hire nannies or wet nurses to care for their sons. And since my daughter wasn't raised by me, she doesn't see herself as a real child of mine, nor do I see myself as a real parent of hers. There is no "imprinting" on our psyches to tell us to turn off our natural sexual desires in the presence of each other.

Let's keep in mind that even under "normal" circumstances we tend to seek out mates who we both find "attractive" and who are very much like we are in likes, dislikes and interests. It is a well known fact that people commonly rank faces similar to their own as more attractive, trustworthy, and so on, than those that are disimilar. Similarity is a genetic trait. Shared interests and personality traits are also commonly considered desirable in a partner. From my personal experience with my daughter, interests, likes and dislikes are all very much part of the genetic coding. I keep calling her my "twin" because we are irrily very much like each other in so many ways. We even have the same IQ, write in the same style and fashion right down to our grammarical constructions and use of punctuation for effect. We even have the same funny voices we use for comic relief. That's part of the attraction, and is why that attraction is actually growing between us instead of diminishing.

When siblings, or children and parents, are sexually attracted, the dynamics are no different than they are for non-genetically related couples. We will have good times and bad. If we are not taught how to compromize with a spouse that relationship runs the same risk of failure as any other. To make it work requires effort. But social taboos, like those against couples of different races, from both outside the couple and from within, tend to put a lot more strain on sibling and c-p couples than occur for normal, non-GSA couples. It isn't impossible to survive as a couple for those of us suffering mutual GSA, but it does take more effort and understanding. 5kmom, I suspect that these social dynamics instilled in both you and your son, and in those who found you out are responsible more for the break up than anything. You might as well have been different races in the 60's and 70's of the last century. Then again, even today mixed race couples are still looked down upon, though not to the same degree as GSA couples.

Other than social taboos that our society has created for what ever social functions they serve, there is no good reason not to allow GSA couples to wed and live normal lives, produce children, etc. Their children are not significantly more likely to suffer genetic abberations, and in fact, while those deficiencies tend to get weeded out after a few generations, the good traits become even stronger.

Again, as I have said before, the only thing really holding us back is that we would lose or have to give up our family(s) in order to stay together as a couple. That's is what we are weighing. And if we ever found that we could keep our families, then there is no question what we would do.

All my best to those of you with a GSA situation. I wish you happiness and love.

5Kmom · 08-29-2007, 08:16 PM

Good luck, Victor. It appears that you have done a lot of reading about the subject (as did I, after I realized what had happened between my son & I). I only know what I went through - but each pair of people involved in a GSA relationship has their own set of circumstances.

I thought I read that you were struggling with whether or not to risk losing your family if you actually have sex with your biological daughter. I see that your therapist has explained the roles that each of you have, but (understandably) you don't feel like the 'father'. Believe me, I didn't feel like the 'mother' either because I did not raise my son, did not cuddle him, change his diapers, etc. That was the problem that ultimately led to our sexual experiences - the need for that closeness and bonding - which, because it was occurring between two adults now, was expressed in a sexual way. Yes, intellectually, it makes sense. What you do with that information has more likelihood of falling victim to rationalization with the feelings you are expressing (not feeling like her father). Here's the deal, though: feelings are just that - feelings. They don't erase the facts and the facts in this situation are: You are her father (biologically) and she is your daughter. Some times our feelings seem more important than facts. But, they are just feelings. However, you and she are in control of your own destinies and you get to decide what will happen.

You mention that, if you knew it would not cause a separation between you and your families, you would proceed in your relationship - no question. I can assure you that someone in your families will not approve. Yes, it may be that they are a victim of society's definition of "normal" - but, that really doesn't matter. It is the pain of ostracism and exclusion that is a recurrent theme in all of our lives. When a GSA relationship crosses the line into a physically sexual relationship, it is like losing one's virginity - it can't be restored to the way it was before and particularly if the family does not approve.

I do wish you two the best. I am happy that you got to be reunited. I pray that you have a wonderful future together - and that you make your choices based on what you truly feel is right.

5Kmom

Bella · 08-30-2007, 02:34 PM

Dear Vic:

I just want to tell you that I really admire both of you. I know how intense these feelings are and it is so easy to "act upon them". You have no idea how I wish Jakob and I would have received help when we first met.

When you cross that line there is no going back. Once family and friends learn the truth it can abslolutely devastate the relations. I think deep down my Mom has not forgiven me.

I hope that you both can reconcile having a father/daugther relationship...and just keep riding it out...you will see...that those feeling will go away.

Strength and courage to you both.
Bella

Victor · 08-30-2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bella

I just want to tell you that I really admire both of you. I know how intense these feelings are and it is so easy to "act upon them". You have no idea how I wish Jakob and I would have received help when we first met.

I actually think I do have an idea. Even though we haven't "fully" acted on our desires, we know the power of that attraction. Honestly, Nothing helps but our hope that we can overcome this power. But it only grows in strength the longer we are together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bella

When you cross that line there is no going back. Once family and friends learn the truth it can abslolutely devastate the relations. I think deep down my Mom has not forgiven me.

What I fear is that the line that should not have been crossed was the reunion itself. I have never experienced such a strong attraction as this. But worse than the attraction is the fear of letting someone know of it....even though we haven't acted on it we will be judged by the mere admittance that it exists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bella

I hope that you both can reconcile having a father/daugther relationship...and just keep riding it out...you will see...that those feeling will go away.

I can only hope you are right. I can't see us trying to maintain a relationship much longer without crossing that line. The pull keeps getting worse.....it doesn't matter if we are apart or together. If I weren't so afraid of the consequences I would have given in a long time ago.

liltimetothink · 09-13-2007, 01:19 AM

Victor, I don't want to sound judgemental, but you and your daughter are putting yourselves in a bad position. I am a psych major and your therapists are right in letting YOU deal with the situation. They might not have said it, for fear of sounding critical or judgemental, but they are basically telling you that as a figurehead you know what the "right" thing to do is. You might not have changrd her diapers or been around to watch her grow up, but the fact of the matter is- your still her FATHER.

Victor · 09-13-2007, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liltimetothink

Victor, I don't want to sound judgemental, but you and your daughter are putting yourselves in a bad position. I am a psych major and your therapists are right in letting YOU deal with the situation. They might not have said it, for fear of sounding critical or judgemental, but they are basically telling you that as a figurehead you know what the "right" thing to do is. You might not have changrd her diapers or been around to watch her grow up, but the fact of the matter is- your still her FATHER.

Are you trying to advise me to keep doing as I have been doing....in other words avoiding a sexual liaison? Believe me...I know how I'll be judged if I let it go there. So does my daughter. But do tell me, how am I a figurehead?

liltimetothink · 09-14-2007, 07:24 PM

Listen Victor, I did'nt mean to for you to think that I'm judging you or anything. For one thing, personally speaking, I don't see anything wrong with you and your daughter having a GSA relationship if both are you are truly in love. What I am saying is that "SOCIETY" sees it very differently.A father/daughter relationship is hard to swallow for a lot of people out there. What I meant when I said that you are a figurehead is that your daughter sought you out with the mentality that she was going to meet you as her father, not as some random someone she was corresponding with. To her, you are the missing piece in her life that she never knew, and now she gets a second chance to fullfil this gap in her life. I hope I did'nt insult you in any way Victor because that is not what I was intending to do. As I said before, I don't see anything wrong yours or anybody's situation here in this forum. All I'm saying is that "SOCIETY" will burden you and your daughter with a great amount of grief for carrying on this type of relationship.

Victor · 09-14-2007, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liltimetothink

Listen Victor, I did'nt mean to for you to think that I'm judging you or anything. For one thing, personally speaking, I don't see anything wrong with you and your daughter having a GSA relationship if both are you are truly in love. What I am saying is that "SOCIETY" sees it very differently.A father/daughter relationship is hard to swallow for a lot of people out there.

I didn't think that at all....I just wasn't real sure what you were saying. You are right. Father/daughter - mother/son relationships are not accepted at all. I imagine that if I acted on my feelings and were found out that I would be literally tarred and feathered. Hell, I know that I will be harshly criticized just for being honest about my feelings for my daughter. As a society we don't value honesty as much as we like to think we do. We reward the liars and cheats while we punish those who tell us the truth. That's a sad note on society as it is, but it's true, and I'm one of those rare, honest people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by liltimetothink

What I meant when I said that you are a figurehead is that your daughter sought you out with the mentality that she was going to meet you as her father, not as some random someone she was corresponding with. To her, you are the missing piece in her life that she never knew, and now she gets a second chance to fulfill this gap in her life.

And yet, she too is strongly affected by her own GSA for me. We see each other as a father/daughter as much as anyone can who has never lived with their father/daughter. But we also feel for each other as someone who we are strongly sexually attracted to and as someone whom we love deeply and emotionally. But also, by our complete honesty that we have given the other these past six months, we are also today each other's best friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by liltimetothink

I hope I did'nt insult you in any way Victor because that is not what I was intending to do. As I said before, I don't see anything wrong yours or anybody's situation here in this forum. All I'm saying is that "SOCIETY" will burden you and your daughter with a great amount of grief for carrying on this type of relationship.

We know how society will view us. Believe me, I am not naive in this regard, nor is she. And it is perhaps this clarity we have of how society would see us and our complete expression of those feelings that has prevented us from acting fully on these strong emotions and feelings for one another. But you do not insult me. I do realize that your concern is earnest and heartfelt.

liltimetothink · 09-14-2007, 09:28 PM

Victor, I'm glad we could clear this up. As I said, SOCIETY is a big obstacle to hurdle when dealing with a situation like your. You said that your daughter was a married women; this will only compound the situation.I'm sure you and you daughter have only the best intentions toward each other, and feel deeply about your emotions. I wish you and your daughter well and hope both of you find happiness in whatever course you take.

08-28-2007, 08:52 AM	#11
Victor Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 178	My daughter and I both have our own psycologists/phychaitrists. Her's told her to "confront [me] with [her] feelings, and [i], being the 'parent' would tell [her] that [her] attraction isn't proper." Problem with that advice is that I wasn't ever "her" parent. I never changed her diaper, never rocked her to sleep or sang her lulabuys. Another man took care of all that instead....he, not me, was her "parent." I was just a secret sperm doner. His name is the one on her birth certificate, not mine. I didn't feel "parental" to her at all. But I did find myself extremely attracted to her in a way that I have never been attracted to anyone before. And when she confessed her own attraction to me, I confessed mine. Honesty seemed like a good start at the time. At least my psychaitrist explained these feelings as a "bonding" process. His advice was simply "*try* not to let it go too far." Those feelings have not subsided or abated. They are as strong or stronger than when we first met. When children are raised together in early childhood with their parents (whether genetically related or not), the affect of our natural sexual attraction is reversed by a form of imprinting known as the "Westermarck effect." This is what makes us see each other as part of a family unit and makes us see sexual relationships between those family units as "icky." Men who aren't allowed by their wives to care for the children, or who themselves don't see it as their shared responsibility to do so, run a risk of not developing this kind of imprinting. The same for the children of mothers who hire nannies or wet nurses to care for their sons. And since my daughter wasn't raised by me, she doesn't see herself as a real child of mine, nor do I see myself as a real parent of hers. There is no "imprinting" on our psyches to tell us to turn off our natural sexual desires in the presence of each other. Let's keep in mind that even under "normal" circumstances we tend to seek out mates who we both find "attractive" and who are very much like we are in likes, dislikes and interests. It is a well known fact that people commonly rank faces similar to their own as more attractive, trustworthy, and so on, than those that are disimilar. Similarity is a genetic trait. Shared interests and personality traits are also commonly considered desirable in a partner. From my personal experience with my daughter, interests, likes and dislikes are all very much part of the genetic coding. I keep calling her my "twin" because we are irrily very much like each other in so many ways. We even have the same IQ, write in the same style and fashion right down to our grammarical constructions and use of punctuation for effect. We even have the same funny voices we use for comic relief. That's part of the attraction, and is why that attraction is actually growing between us instead of diminishing. When siblings, or children and parents, are sexually attracted, the dynamics are no different than they are for non-genetically related couples. We will have good times and bad. If we are not taught how to compromize with a spouse that relationship runs the same risk of failure as any other. To make it work requires effort. But social taboos, like those against couples of different races, from both outside the couple and from within, tend to put a lot more strain on sibling and c-p couples than occur for normal, non-GSA couples. It isn't impossible to survive as a couple for those of us suffering mutual GSA, but it does take more effort and understanding. 5kmom, I suspect that these social dynamics instilled in both you and your son, and in those who found you out are responsible more for the break up than anything. You might as well have been different races in the 60's and 70's of the last century. Then again, even today mixed race couples are still looked down upon, though not to the same degree as GSA couples. Other than social taboos that our society has created for what ever social functions they serve, there is no good reason not to allow GSA couples to wed and live normal lives, produce children, etc. Their children are not significantly more likely to suffer genetic abberations, and in fact, while those deficiencies tend to get weeded out after a few generations, the good traits become even stronger. Again, as I have said before, the only thing really holding us back is that we would lose or have to give up our family(s) in order to stay together as a couple. That's is what we are weighing. And if we ever found that we could keep our families, then there is no question what we would do. All my best to those of you with a GSA situation. I wish you happiness and love. Last edited by Victor : 08-28-2007 at 09:04 AM.

08-30-2007, 02:34 PM	#13
Bella Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 18	I admire you both Dear Vic: I just want to tell you that I really admire both of you. I know how intense these feelings are and it is so easy to "act upon them". You have no idea how I wish Jakob and I would have received help when we first met. When you cross that line there is no going back. Once family and friends learn the truth it can abslolutely devastate the relations. I think deep down my Mom has not forgiven me. I hope that you both can reconcile having a father/daugther relationship...and just keep riding it out...you will see...that those feeling will go away. Strength and courage to you both. Bella

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08-29-2007, 08:16 PM	#12
5Kmom Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 38	Good luck, Victor. It appears that you have done a lot of reading about the subject (as did I, after I realized what had happened between my son & I). I only know what I went through - but each pair of people involved in a GSA relationship has their own set of circumstances. I thought I read that you were struggling with whether or not to risk losing your family if you actually have sex with your biological daughter. I see that your therapist has explained the roles that each of you have, but (understandably) you don't feel like the 'father'. Believe me, I didn't feel like the 'mother' either because I did not raise my son, did not cuddle him, change his diapers, etc. That was the problem that ultimately led to our sexual experiences - the need for that closeness and bonding - which, because it was occurring between two adults now, was expressed in a sexual way. Yes, intellectually, it makes sense. What you do with that information has more likelihood of falling victim to rationalization with the feelings you are expressing (not feeling like her father). Here's the deal, though: feelings are just that - feelings. They don't erase the facts and the facts in this situation are: You are her father (biologically) and she is your daughter. Some times our feelings seem more important than facts. But, they are just feelings. However, you and she are in control of your own destinies and you get to decide what will happen. You mention that, if you knew it would not cause a separation between you and your families, you would proceed in your relationship - no question. I can assure you that someone in your families will not approve. Yes, it may be that they are a victim of society's definition of "normal" - but, that really doesn't matter. It is the pain of ostracism and exclusion that is a recurrent theme in all of our lives. When a GSA relationship crosses the line into a physically sexual relationship, it is like losing one's virginity - it can't be restored to the way it was before and particularly if the family does not approve. I do wish you two the best. I am happy that you got to be reunited. I pray that you have a wonderful future together - and that you make your choices based on what you truly feel is right. 5Kmom

09-13-2007, 01:19 AM	#15
liltimetothink Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 15	Victor, I don't want to sound judgemental, but you and your daughter are putting yourselves in a bad position. I am a psych major and your therapists are right in letting YOU deal with the situation. They might not have said it, for fear of sounding critical or judgemental, but they are basically telling you that as a figurehead you know what the "right" thing to do is. You might not have changrd her diapers or been around to watch her grow up, but the fact of the matter is- your still her FATHER.

09-14-2007, 07:24 PM	#17
liltimetothink Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 15	Listen Victor, I did'nt mean to for you to think that I'm judging you or anything. For one thing, personally speaking, I don't see anything wrong with you and your daughter having a GSA relationship if both are you are truly in love. What I am saying is that "SOCIETY" sees it very differently.A father/daughter relationship is hard to swallow for a lot of people out there. What I meant when I said that you are a figurehead is that your daughter sought you out with the mentality that she was going to meet you as her father, not as some random someone she was corresponding with. To her, you are the missing piece in her life that she never knew, and now she gets a second chance to fullfil this gap in her life. I hope I did'nt insult you in any way Victor because that is not what I was intending to do. As I said before, I don't see anything wrong yours or anybody's situation here in this forum. All I'm saying is that "SOCIETY" will burden you and your daughter with a great amount of grief for carrying on this type of relationship.

09-14-2007, 09:28 PM	#19
liltimetothink Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 15	Victor, I'm glad we could clear this up. As I said, SOCIETY is a big obstacle to hurdle when dealing with a situation like your. You said that your daughter was a married women; this will only compound the situation.I'm sure you and you daughter have only the best intentions toward each other, and feel deeply about your emotions. I wish you and your daughter well and hope both of you find happiness in whatever course you take.