A love I've never known, yet always felt.

[LovingBro]

We were born to different fathers. Separated between our births, her dad kept her and I was adopted out after 1-2 years when Childrens services rescued my f/b brother, another h/b sister and I who were abandoned in a hotel room.

She is 8 years older than me. We live 1200 miles apart and we are in constant communication either by phone, or IM.

We were reunited as a family 2 years ago after a 20 year search (yes, we are both > 40 now) and that is when I discovered her, my 3 other h/b sisters and my 4 h-f/b brothers.

During the last 2 years we have confided in each other all of our past, secrets and feelings. We have grown to know each other emotionally, mentally and most of all, spiritually.

She is divorced(x3), grown kids and lives alone and I am married (4th time) with step kids grown, and in another miserable marriage. Yes, I know I have issues, working on them too.

I have gone through life searching, looking and dreaming of the woman that would make me whole, understand my relationship and abandonment issues.

I have always been a faithful husband, father and friend.

My issue is that over my 2 years talking with sis, we have gotten to a point that we are flirting with each other. If that isn't enough, we both feel like each completes the other, we were brought together by God and the immense longing we have to be together is unbearable and frustrating at times. She apparently feels the same way - she told me the other night.

Prior to my reunion, I did a lot of research on issues with adoptees and relations with the "new" birth family and adoptive family. It was a lot to absorb, but I always kept it in mind, most of the time I mentally referred back to my research and could label my and others reactions, feelings etc.

I never thought it could be so intense, and I guess I wasn't really prepared in my own mind to deal with what I think is growing into a GA or GSA relationship with sis.

I don't have dreams or fantasies about sexual activities with her, but some of them would be considered, well..... let's say, unacceptable societally.

I will admit to you all here after reading most of the posts and gaining more knowledge that if things were to go further than that, I would love for it to happen. I do crave the closeness of her, both physically and emotionally. I feel euphorically in love with her and everytime I talk to her, I have a smile on my face.

I have visited her for a week a year ago, and we got along great and were very (what would be considered normal) affectionate.

I guess I am a bit scared of my upcoming visit and what may happen. I do want her in all aspects. And I know she too wants me. We have very open and honest conversations even about this.

I love and cherish my sis, and I want her near me and close to me in my life. Has anyone kept the bro/sis relationship AND a lover relationship at the same time sucessfully?

Personally, if I had to choose, I'd take a lover, as I have never felt SOOOOOO connected to anyone in my life. This has taught me a new level of "Love" that I have never known. I always thought I knew what it was like to be "In Love", but I was wrong until now.

Some of you may think I am wrong, but if you do, tell me why from a reasoned, rational perspective without judging me.

Words of encouragement are also appreciated and hoped for.

If you believe in a higher power, please pray for us to know this pure love and to do what is right for us.

Thanks Barb, you have provided a place for a lot of people in silent pain to hear from others and not feel alone.... Continue the great work.

[BarbGonyo]

You're welcome.

I know what you are feeling and what you want to happen. Because of what you are feeling and wanting and that she is on the same page so to speak, I feel you will follow your instincts.

This is not the advice I would give you because I don't think anyone can be siblings and lovers. Once you are lovers, the sibling relationship is gone. Now you deal with guilt, and the addiction of the sexual act.

The other things to deal with would be what it does to the others in both your families.

Of course you have these intense feelings of love. You sister has become your everything. She is a part of you that you recognize in yourself and like. You want more. But I will be repeating myself in using cliches such as less is more.

I have counselled so many people with this same examination of self. You may even be one of them. Ask yourself about affairs and life long relationships.

You say you have been married 4x and she 3xs. I could guess that all of these relationships involved what you both thought was the love of your lives and sex. As the record would show, they have all gone by the wayside. Why?

Why is this different? Because you aren't lovers, you are siblings who love each other and want to be together for the rest of your lives as most siblings are allowed to be when kept in families that are in tact. Some sibs don't ever like each other their whole lives and some love each other deeply. That love is not a sexual love but a love of belonging together because we like each other and respect each other and wouldn't cause each other any harm.

I know you want me to say, go for it, you have suffered enough being apart and should do what your bodies and hearts tell you that you need.

But I won't because I believe that this will not bring you peace but more problems and more longing and eventually a 5th and 4th breakup.

I could be wrong but my years of this show me that the issues that you two need to work out is how to stay siblings and deal with all your back issues in your lives.

I will add you to my prayer list which gets longer daily. There are so many problems with the GSA issue as it was the separationg that started it and the reunion that brings it to a boil.

Love your sister and pray for strength and wisdom from the One who grants these blessings. I've never seen where doing the right thing was the wrong thing.

God bless you both.
Barb Gonyo
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[BarbGonyo]

You're welcome.

I know what you are feeling and what you want to happen. Because of what you are feeling and wanting and that she is on the same page so to speak, I feel you will follow your instincts.

This is not the advice I would give you because I don't think anyone can be siblings and lovers. Once you are lovers, the sibling relationship is gone. Now you deal with guilt, and the addiction of the sexual act.

The other things to deal with would be what it does to the others in both your families.

Of course you have these intense feelings of love. You sister has become your everything. She is a part of you that you recognize in yourself and like. You want more. But I will be repeating myself in using cliches such as less is more.

I have counselled so many people with this same examination of self. You may even be one of them. Ask yourself about affairs and life long relationships.

You say you have been married 4x and she 3xs. I could guess that all of these relationships involved what you both thought was the love of your lives and sex. As the record would show, they have all gone by the wayside. Why?

Why is this different? Because you aren't lovers, you are siblings who love each other and want to be together for the rest of your lives as most siblings are allowed to be when kept in families that are in tact. Some sibs don't ever like each other their whole lives and some love each other deeply. That love is not a sexual love but a love of belonging together because we like each other and respect each other and wouldn't cause each other any harm.

I know you want me to say, go for it, you have suffered enough being apart and should do what your bodies and hearts tell you that you need.

But I won't because I believe that this will not bring you peace but more problems and more longing and eventually a 5th and 4th breakup.

I could be wrong but my years of this show me that the issues that you two need to work out is how to stay siblings and deal with all your back issues in your lives.

I will add you to my prayer list which gets longer daily. There are so many problems with the GSA issue as it was the separationg that started it and the reunion that brings it to a boil.

Love your sister and pray for strength and wisdom from the One who grants these blessings. I've never seen where doing the right thing was the wrong thing.

God bless you both.
Barb Gonyo
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[LovingBro]

The one thing that I have learned through years of counseling is that most of my relationship issues have been born from either my own fear of rejection and subsequent withdrawal from the relationship (that way I am doing the rejecting I guess instead of being rejected) or my inability to be alone in life (I have been married constantly for about 23 years).

All of my marriages always followed very quickly upon the heels of the last.


Now a quick followup question for you: Do you really believe that the line between sibling and lover is absolute and you have to be on one side or the other without a possibility of returning back?

Has anyone else been able to handle both? Is it impossible? Is it just fantasy?

I just don't know the answers. I do find this different that a mother son GSA relationship, as you probably do a sibling GSA relationship. I could not even begin to understand the complexities of a mother/son, and am just now struggling to understand sibling ones.

Thanks to everyone on here for sharing and being so open about your own personal stories. I know it's tough to open up and trust, especially with something like this that is so emotionally charged.

Thank you for your prayers, I have lifted this up to Him to help me resolve it.

[MamaR]

I can answer one question for you from personal experience. If you become lovers, you WILL lose the sibling relationship as well as the comfort of attending family gatherings...your relationship will show....and a lot of your peace of mind. My h/b and I are rebuilding our sibling relationship now and there is no way that a romantic or sexual relationship could co-exist with our sibling relationship. I know the wanting is deep and intense, but there is no way that He could condone you acting on your desires. Of all the attempts at justification I have heard, that is the most unlikely.

I just wish that Barb's book and this site had been available for me 38 years ago. I needed a good dose of common sense and reality..if it had been available, I might have avoided going over that line and behaving in a selfish and destructive manner that caused a lot of pain.

If your belief in God is so strong, then perhaps you could pray that He could help you and your sister overcome your desires and enter into an appropriate and caring sibling relationship. Try thinking about the effect this could have on your shared loved ones. Try thinking about what might happen down the road, should the "desired" relationship end...what would happen then? There would be too much baggage to make a transition to a brother/sister relationship an easy task.

I know that I am seen as intolerant and judgemental, but I HAVE BEEN THERE!!! It's either a situation where you have to isolate yourselves and lie to the new people you meet and lose your former family, or one where you sneak around or you overcome it, grow a little, learn a lot and move on. I stood to lose my child, my parent's acceptance, my other siblings and my friends' respect..for what? A dream...a fantasy....an emotional "thrill" that was like a drug. God took care of me, back then, and I thank Him/Her everyday for helping my brother have the strength to back away and stay away until I got my head on straight.

I have found that the light of reality and truth can make you squint when you finally allow yourself to look at it, but you won't go blind.

[BarbGonyo]

I see you are getting some feedback from MamaR. I hope you are listening to her voice of experience.

You ask about definite lines in a relationship. Yes there is a line and a strong one which is there for a reason. Once you cross that line thinking it is your right to do so, you could pay the price.

Oh if only we all lived on an island where we could satisfy all our desires and know that no one is watching or caring if we just fill ourselves up. But rules have a purpose. Boundaries are necessary.

We have boundaries in marriage to stay faithful. Once we cross that line, rarely does everyone live happily ever after.

I know you want a fairytale ending to satisfy your needs for now, but those needs will change. Read the last few posts from today and there are some excellent observenses. I'm sure you'd rather find posts that say, " we are siblings and we are together for years and we don't care what anyone else thinks because we are soul mates." You'll be able to find some of those, but I really wonder how long it will last if they haven't really gotten to the big issues.

I also see people who are not used to setting any kind of boundaries in their lives and have little self control. These seem to be the ones who cross the line easily. Those who are tormented by their needs may be the lucky ones because it could cause them to not move forward into a type of relationship they will later regret, but back off and work through a relationship that will be lifelong.

Enough of me for today.
Barb Gonyo
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[LovingBro]

I am not really looking for the relationship to enter into a physical or sexual nature. I do not really want to cross the line.

Some of my questions are out of curiosity to help me understand this..... Phenomena/Issue whatever you want to call it.

I certainly would not be looking for Him to condone it either, I am just asking for the peace and strength to deal with this tidal wave of emotions and desires that we are both feeling.

I can understand your position having been through it. I know how emotional we can be when we see others treading down the same path we have just to find that it ends at a cliff and all we want to do is give them a parachute at least.

I've raised teenagers

[MamaR]

Bro, what is it that you need in your life that this fantasy/feeling is fulfilling? Yes, it's dangerous, exciting, forbidden and totally inappropriate and potentially disasterous. I allowed myself to stop obsessing, to stop "wanting" so badly that which I shouldn't and couldn't have. I remembered what was important...my home, my parents, my child...It can be overcome if you are willing to accept the fact that it is a fast road to nowhere and let it go. I like the person I see in the mirror every morning. 38 years ago, I didn't.

Yes, understanding is important. I would highly recommend Barb's book and some others that touch on GSA by reunited adoptees such as B.J. Lifton. But, in the long run, understanding is not a "cure." You act as if she is just a sister, not a possible romantic match, and the mind and body will follow. I'm glad to know that you are committed to not crossing that line. You are doing yourself and your sister a big favor.

I mentioned my child. I often wonder how it would have been for her to grow up and learn that her mother was in an intimate relationship with her uncle. That was an effective deterrent for me. Maybe thinking about those teenagers you have raised and how they might see their dad and aunt in a very unflattering light if this were to ever become known, might help your turn your feelings around and find more appropriate feelings of brotherly love for your sister.

[LovingBro]

You asked "Bro, what is it that you need in your life that this fantasy/feeling is fulfilling?"

If I could only put an answer to that in words.

Maybe this is close: I have spent my whole life looking for someone to be truly close to. As a child I was raised by my a-parents as a single child. I have never known a sibling relationship.

Part of it is that it is really hard for me to define what that really is in practical emotional terms.

But I think the fulfillment comes from knowing her, being open with her to an extent I have never been open with even very close friends. The first person that I completely trust to just be myself around, feel no judgemental attitude and have someone who really understands me.

She was also raised most of her life as an only child till her dad remarried when she was around 10 in which the step mom brought step siblings.

After she and I have talked, I have realized that she has the same feelings of being alone in this world as I do. All of my relationships of any intimate nature came from a physical nature and never emotional.

This is so difficult to understand as I know that a lot of my feelings are considered wrong, but they are very calming, reassuring and warm.

Therefore, the root is how to deal with it. She and I need to figure a way to be on an intimate level without crossing the line.

And with our emotions where they are at, I like you, see danger ahead and I want to get control of the hurricane before it makes landfall.....

[LovingBro]

MomaR, I was re-reading your post and you seem to make it so easy when you say "I allowed myself to stop obsessing, to stop "wanting" so badly that which I shouldn't and couldn't have."

Do you have any useful tools or practical methods to help somebody overcome these feelings that are so strong? I am sure others would love to hear this as well.

If I could do that so easily, this wouldn't be an issue and I wouldn't be spending time here looking for answers.

[MamaR]

I didn't say it was easy, but it is not as hard if you allow it. We human beings tend to hold on to the stuff that feels good, even if it is subconciously.

What I did do was use some common sense. I concentrated on my child, I found outlets for my energy, got back into my art and needlework, never referred to my brother as anything BUT my brother, even to myself, and applied myself to the relationships I had. I did all the things I enjoyed doing before and realized that I was the same person that loved to ride through the mountains, go swimming and singing in the choir.

I had no references to guide me, so I just did what I thought made sense. I accepted that it was somehow related to the fact that we never even met until we were adults, I imagined growing up with him and realized that I would be horrified at the idea of a sexual relationship with him in those circumstances and I gave myself some good mental shakings.

Oh, it would have made a good drama to think of myself as carrying a flame of forbidden love in my broken heart for the rest of my life, but I am not into pain. He removed himself and that was for the best because I had the freedom to heal. A little distance for a while isn't a bad idea.

I can't say this enough..though...you have to be really WILLING to let go of the feelings...to find other outlets for your emotional energy and to let the fact that the relationship needs to be that of a sibling be OK with you both conciously and emotionally. If you are honest, you can see that the big task is to be willing to get past it and lose that "swept away" emotional intensity. Time took care of the rest of it for me.

[MamaR]

OK..I re-read your original post and I see that you are the one that was adopted. I think that adoption issues, the grief and anger and ambiguity need to be worked through in order to deal with vanquishing the GSA. Have you thought of joining an adoptee support group?

[LovingBro]

How do I do that?

[MamaR]

Bro, I would suggest going to the msn groups site and looking up the "Adoptese" group. It is run by an adopted person, Joe Soll, and he leads online chats about adoption issues. He also has a list of face-to-face groups in different areas of the country. There also is a private adoptee group, "Adoptees Only" on msn groups that is safer from prying public eyes.

Have you read any adoption reunion literature? There are some good books out now and there is also Nancy Verrier's "The Primal Wound," which explains a lot of the issues of the adopted person. Have you read Barb's book? There's a lot of helpful wisdom there...actually the most in-depth publication to date to deal with GSA.

I have had to deal with my grief as a mother of adoption loss and have found these online groups and these books to be invaluable. Another good book, to help you really understand the origins of the surrender to adoption of so many is Ann Fessler's "The Girls Who Went Away."

In any event, you have to be willing to do some hard work, but it is worth it.

[diamondbabysis]

We are currently trying to work out the bro/sis thing after very very closely crossing the line. We have caused so much pain to our spouses who do not understand what we are feeling & this has cost me much. But my family is standing by me & trying to support me. So I have a strong support system. I keep researching but i haven't really found anyone who can tell me about how to get back to just being bro/sis. He & I both have a hard time letting go of the "special feelings" we have for each other. If we don't talk or hear from each other, we both get crazy. My husband knows when he calls or if he doesn't by the way my mood swings, so I know about how the addiction thing feels. I am in counseling and one thing I have been able to understand is that we don't control the chemical changes that go on when we meet that special person who triggers all those feelings, but WE CAN CONTROL how we react to that person & the feelings that we experience. That is where we all have the choice to act on them or not. It feels so right & nothing else will satisfy us except those emotions just like a drug. But just like the addict, I have to work on wanting to let go of those feelings & justifying why i should not act on them when everything in my mind & body is wanting to. I know for me i seem to be stuck in this area. I don't want to let go & neither does he. Even though I know & he knows, that if we walked away from everything & everyone in our lives to be together, that maybe for a while we could make each other happy, but after a while we would miss the family that could/would not understand. For the 2 other family members that know what happened, they state they will support us no matter what road we would take, but they know it would be a mistake to walk away from the lives we have now. so i just try to take it one day at a time. We talk as often as we can & try to remind each other that this love is so special it will never die. I know that over time it will change, just like any relationship. ?less intense? More intense? these are questions I can't answer. What is the purpose of all these emotions if you can't be together? Why do they happen and most of all why did it affect us? There are 12 of us & thank goodness I haven't had another experience like this. this is just scary. But hang in there. I have to keep reminding myself what i stand to lose if i acted on these feelings. maybe that will help you....