To: The Other Woman

luvsbubby · 05-17-2006, 11:17 AM

TheotherWoman
Your reply to that other post made me sad..you seem like a very kind hearted compassionate woman..I am sorry that you were caught in the crossfire.. I hope that you find happiness..you certainly deserve it..I dont know how you feel about her but maybe you could unite together and be a part of that child's life..before I met my hb I was with a guy who I suspected was involved with his fb sister..I always felt like the other woman..but there was too much competition, jealousy, and lies on both of their parts~~~and anger on mine to reconcile any difference between us all to work it out..They have never *come out* so anyone involved with either of them are just being used as a front..and I refused to be that..I hope that you are well..and no yr husband didnt deserve 15 years,, was there an issue of age difference?? Bc I dont understand why he is in jail and she is not..if they both committed the same crime??
Luvsbubby

TheOtherWoman · 05-18-2006, 01:52 AM

luvsbubby, thank you!
well, yeah, we are dealing with it. We were separated for a couple years while they were a couple. the reason they threw the book at him was the age difference. it was a b/f, b/d meeting. In our neck of the country, there is court precedence that the parent is always the one and only perpetrator in cases of incest, and the "child" (even adult child) is always innocent and can never be charged with incest. This is why I am so angry for the legal system.

And to add insult to injury, he has been found guilty of child abuse of his baby boy due to the incest. Yes, she was not abused. The child that they conceived is the one abused. So, even though the sexual relationship was mutual, my husband is also a child abuser, but she is not. And this little baby will someday know that the basic fact that he was conceived constitutes child abuse against him. How messed up is that? So, the only way legally he wouldn't have been an abused child is for him to have never been born. Think about that one ten times fast.

The system says that this is to protect the young woman and the baby. How do these convictions help any of them?

Going back to the beginning, I was super excited for them both, since I'm an adoptee searching. When she found him, I was thrilled to support this young woman getting completion and answers to her life-long questions. I wanted her to get what I had wanted. I really took her in as my own daughter, too. I didn't have any clue how fast and powerful gsa kicks in. The outing of the affair ripped our family and friends apart. We instantly separated -- their choice. They wanted to be together with no constraints. At that point, it looked like that was the end of the story.

The silver lining that I would like to share is that we are all putting this back together. It is very delicate, obviously. But, stronger than the devastation, is the common ground of all of us hurting, and no one else understanding. The marriage is getting back together, by the grace of God. All of us are now deeply connected to faith along with a huge dose of humility. My fighting instincts came out when my family was threatened. My husband is barred from all contact with his daughter and his new son. And he won't be around for the next ten to fifteen. That makes me the family for her and baby. So now I'm a grandma/stepmom trying to be the emotional support as she comes to terms with all of the implications. She still has feelings for him, and doesn't think she will ever be comfortable thinking of him as her dad. Yet, she is still in contact with me and asks me for motherly guidance on how to get her mind around this and move toward the father/daughter relationship she still wants and needs. He is devastated knowing that the one chance that he had to know and raise a child of his own has been taken away. He wasn't given that option when his daughter was born decades ago. And I believe in people and family and that life isn't always neat and clean and what you expect.

She is now asking for advice as the little one is starting to talk. So I ask any of you with experience for your own advice. What worked, what didn't, ideas. She is wondering what to tell him as he grows. When she was pregnant, they thought that they should be honest with him and not have hang-ups. Now that she will be a single parent and dating, she is second guessing this idea. My feeling is that it is wrong to put such a burden onto a child. It isn't the truth that's heavy. It is the reaction of other people when he tells them. He shouldn't be set up for that sort of persecution/judgement. When he is grown he should be better equipped to handle something this heavy and separate his own feelings from society's opinions. I really don't know, though. I haven't walked this path before. I wish that this hadn't happened. But it did. And my step daughter has given me a beautiful grandson/step son. He gives her meaning. She loves him so much. For that I'm glad. It's just unfortunate that the authorities have said that the father being part of their life is damaging and forbidden. Then, what do I do when he is released. Do I go visit my grandson/stepson without him? He's the Daddy! This is so wrong. It just makes me cry so much. He wanted to be there with his daughter and son. She wanted him to be there for their son. Even with us reuniting, she wants both of us in her life. But I'm not the family they want and need. They need their daddy.
Am I rambling? I try to keep my thoughts together. It is hard to keep this onto the gsa and its effects without interjecting my own experience as the wife caught in the crossfire. That's more for the "My Husband Cheated On Me" forum, right? :lol:

Thanks for any advice you may give to any of us.

luvsbubby · 05-18-2006, 02:04 AM

the other woman
its like 2am where i am and ishouldnt be up this late but iwanted to reply real quick just because.. I will return tomm night with much to say..thinking and praying for you
luvsbubby

rollingrocker1972 · 05-19-2006, 12:48 PM

I'm not surprised at the legal persecution. I am surprised that they got caught, that the "authorities" ever got wind of their relationship to begin with. The number one thing to remember when doing something that is considered to be a "crime" is, don't get caught. That means keeping it an absolute secret. Someone ratted them out and I can only hope that karma catches up with that person or persons.

With all of the genuine crime that goes on in the world you would think that the legal system would have bigger fish to fry. It should have something better to do than persecute a loving relationship between consenting adults. They should not be wasting a prison cell to incarcerate your husband for a consensual "crime." It is one thing to convict someone and give them probation, it is quite another to lock them up at taxpayer's expense when they are NOT a threat to society.

Our society, and our legal system by extention, has a very hard time distinguishing between consensual adult sex with a relative, and the sexual abuse of a child by his or her family. Imagine if society couldn't tell the difference between consensual sex and rape. What would the laws and the court cases look like? I think they'd look an awful lot like this one.

Ultimately the laws that attempt to regulate consensual sex between adults are unconstitutional. Both Roe vs Wade and Lawrence vs Texas establish this independently. Does this do your husband any good? No, but it does demonstrate how quickly our society loses sight of its principles when the "ick" factor comes into play. A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular. Consensual sex between adult relatives is very unpopular for reasons that do nothing to establish a compelling reason for it to be prohibited. The fact that it is prohibited shows just how far short our nation falls from the ideals of individual liberty it was founded upon.

Let this be a lesson to everyone here. The world we live in is not nearly free enough to accept us. Just as gays and lesbians were once subject to persecution and incarceration, so are we. Those who are involved in a GSA relationship must be proactive about protecting themselves. Find out what the laws are where you live. If you're living someplace where you're in danger, move or end the relationship. Which is harder, a change of geography or the loss of one's life's love?

TheOtherWoman · 05-20-2006, 11:50 AM

Rollingrocker1972, Hello,

Your eloquence is amazing. I wish you had been my husband's attorney. The loophole for the Ick factor was that she wasn't an adult until four months into the relationship. So, the judge gave 6 months for the Incest charge (over 18), and 15 years for the under 18. And it was ONLY ick factor. The maximum he had ever sentenced someone to for an older man with a consentual older minor was two years -- usually 0-6 months and time-already-served. Ant then there was a child rapist (of two 4-year-olds) who received 7 years from another judge in the courthouse.

I can't believe the Ick factor is that strong! That similar situations get no time, and violent crimes that have harmed and scarred children get less than half. Oh, well, I know I'm preaching to the choir here. I just am still amazed and can't stop repeating myself over and over and over. I guess I haven't done it a lot in this forum, but in my life, I think I'm a broken record.

Thanks for putting it so well. It helps sort things out in my mind. Now if we can sort things out in life and undo the additional damage done by the system designed to protect us... Thank you!

05-17-2006, 11:17 AM	#1
luvsbubby Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ohio Posts: 89	To: The Other Woman TheotherWoman Your reply to that other post made me sad..you seem like a very kind hearted compassionate woman..I am sorry that you were caught in the crossfire.. I hope that you find happiness..you certainly deserve it..I dont know how you feel about her but maybe you could unite together and be a part of that child's life..before I met my hb I was with a guy who I suspected was involved with his fb sister..I always felt like the other woman..but there was too much competition, jealousy, and lies on both of their parts~~~and anger on mine to reconcile any difference between us all to work it out..They have never come out so anyone involved with either of them are just being used as a front..and I refused to be that..I hope that you are well..and no yr husband didnt deserve 15 years,, was there an issue of age difference?? Bc I dont understand why he is in jail and she is not..if they both committed the same crime?? Luvsbubby

05-18-2006, 01:52 AM	#2
TheOtherWoman Junior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 12	And we're (d) All of the above... luvsbubby, thank you! well, yeah, we are dealing with it. We were separated for a couple years while they were a couple. the reason they threw the book at him was the age difference. it was a b/f, b/d meeting. In our neck of the country, there is court precedence that the parent is always the one and only perpetrator in cases of incest, and the "child" (even adult child) is always innocent and can never be charged with incest. This is why I am so angry for the legal system. And to add insult to injury, he has been found guilty of child abuse of his baby boy due to the incest. Yes, she was not abused. The child that they conceived is the one abused. So, even though the sexual relationship was mutual, my husband is also a child abuser, but she is not. And this little baby will someday know that the basic fact that he was conceived constitutes child abuse against him. How messed up is that? So, the only way legally he wouldn't have been an abused child is for him to have never been born. Think about that one ten times fast. The system says that this is to protect the young woman and the baby. How do these convictions help any of them? Going back to the beginning, I was super excited for them both, since I'm an adoptee searching. When she found him, I was thrilled to support this young woman getting completion and answers to her life-long questions. I wanted her to get what I had wanted. I really took her in as my own daughter, too. I didn't have any clue how fast and powerful gsa kicks in. The outing of the affair ripped our family and friends apart. We instantly separated -- their choice. They wanted to be together with no constraints. At that point, it looked like that was the end of the story. The silver lining that I would like to share is that we are all putting this back together. It is very delicate, obviously. But, stronger than the devastation, is the common ground of all of us hurting, and no one else understanding. The marriage is getting back together, by the grace of God. All of us are now deeply connected to faith along with a huge dose of humility. My fighting instincts came out when my family was threatened. My husband is barred from all contact with his daughter and his new son. And he won't be around for the next ten to fifteen. That makes me the family for her and baby. So now I'm a grandma/stepmom trying to be the emotional support as she comes to terms with all of the implications. She still has feelings for him, and doesn't think she will ever be comfortable thinking of him as her dad. Yet, she is still in contact with me and asks me for motherly guidance on how to get her mind around this and move toward the father/daughter relationship she still wants and needs. He is devastated knowing that the one chance that he had to know and raise a child of his own has been taken away. He wasn't given that option when his daughter was born decades ago. And I believe in people and family and that life isn't always neat and clean and what you expect. She is now asking for advice as the little one is starting to talk. So I ask any of you with experience for your own advice. What worked, what didn't, ideas. She is wondering what to tell him as he grows. When she was pregnant, they thought that they should be honest with him and not have hang-ups. Now that she will be a single parent and dating, she is second guessing this idea. My feeling is that it is wrong to put such a burden onto a child. It isn't the truth that's heavy. It is the reaction of other people when he tells them. He shouldn't be set up for that sort of persecution/judgement. When he is grown he should be better equipped to handle something this heavy and separate his own feelings from society's opinions. I really don't know, though. I haven't walked this path before. I wish that this hadn't happened. But it did. And my step daughter has given me a beautiful grandson/step son. He gives her meaning. She loves him so much. For that I'm glad. It's just unfortunate that the authorities have said that the father being part of their life is damaging and forbidden. Then, what do I do when he is released. Do I go visit my grandson/stepson without him? He's the Daddy! This is so wrong. It just makes me cry so much. He wanted to be there with his daughter and son. She wanted him to be there for their son. Even with us reuniting, she wants both of us in her life. But I'm not the family they want and need. They need their daddy. Am I rambling? I try to keep my thoughts together. It is hard to keep this onto the gsa and its effects without interjecting my own experience as the wife caught in the crossfire. That's more for the "My Husband Cheated On Me" forum, right? :lol: Thanks for any advice you may give to any of us.

05-20-2006, 11:50 AM	#5
TheOtherWoman Junior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 12	Legal Issues Rollingrocker1972, Hello, Your eloquence is amazing. I wish you had been my husband's attorney. The loophole for the Ick factor was that she wasn't an adult until four months into the relationship. So, the judge gave 6 months for the Incest charge (over 18), and 15 years for the under 18. And it was ONLY ick factor. The maximum he had ever sentenced someone to for an older man with a consentual older minor was two years -- usually 0-6 months and time-already-served. Ant then there was a child rapist (of two 4-year-olds) who received 7 years from another judge in the courthouse. I can't believe the Ick factor is that strong! That similar situations get no time, and violent crimes that have harmed and scarred children get less than half. Oh, well, I know I'm preaching to the choir here. I just am still amazed and can't stop repeating myself over and over and over. I guess I haven't done it a lot in this forum, but in my life, I think I'm a broken record. Thanks for putting it so well. It helps sort things out in my mind. Now if we can sort things out in life and undo the additional damage done by the system designed to protect us... Thank you!

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05-18-2006, 02:04 AM	#3
luvsbubby Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ohio Posts: 89	the other woman its like 2am where i am and ishouldnt be up this late but iwanted to reply real quick just because.. I will return tomm night with much to say..thinking and praying for you luvsbubby

05-19-2006, 12:48 PM	#4
rollingrocker1972 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 23	I'm not surprised at the legal persecution. I am surprised that they got caught, that the "authorities" ever got wind of their relationship to begin with. The number one thing to remember when doing something that is considered to be a "crime" is, don't get caught. That means keeping it an absolute secret. Someone ratted them out and I can only hope that karma catches up with that person or persons. With all of the genuine crime that goes on in the world you would think that the legal system would have bigger fish to fry. It should have something better to do than persecute a loving relationship between consenting adults. They should not be wasting a prison cell to incarcerate your husband for a consensual "crime." It is one thing to convict someone and give them probation, it is quite another to lock them up at taxpayer's expense when they are NOT a threat to society. Our society, and our legal system by extention, has a very hard time distinguishing between consensual adult sex with a relative, and the sexual abuse of a child by his or her family. Imagine if society couldn't tell the difference between consensual sex and rape. What would the laws and the court cases look like? I think they'd look an awful lot like this one. Ultimately the laws that attempt to regulate consensual sex between adults are unconstitutional. Both Roe vs Wade and Lawrence vs Texas establish this independently. Does this do your husband any good? No, but it does demonstrate how quickly our society loses sight of its principles when the "ick" factor comes into play. A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular. Consensual sex between adult relatives is very unpopular for reasons that do nothing to establish a compelling reason for it to be prohibited. The fact that it is prohibited shows just how far short our nation falls from the ideals of individual liberty it was founded upon. Let this be a lesson to everyone here. The world we live in is not nearly free enough to accept us. Just as gays and lesbians were once subject to persecution and incarceration, so are we. Those who are involved in a GSA relationship must be proactive about protecting themselves. Find out what the laws are where you live. If you're living someplace where you're in danger, move or end the relationship. Which is harder, a change of geography or the loss of one's life's love?