Working through GSA with son - Page 2

reunitedbutconfused · 06-22-2007, 06:53 AM

otherwise normal- I understand what you are saying & that is how I feel -I want nothing more than to feel "appropriate feelings" for my hb & I am working really hard towards that & altho I still feel incredibly attracted to him I am not acting on it & remain that I never will again as I know it spells DISASTER for us both & for us is not the way forward ( I appreciate the other side tho for those who do want to be together as well). I agree it is terrifying but I do think being strong helps as I no longer feel "blown around" by the GSA but more in control.

5Kmom · 06-26-2007, 10:13 PM

For "Otherwise Normal": Thanks for being so open about your struggles. It isn't easy to move through these feelings - ask Barb. She mentions on the home page about spending 13 years to get through those feelings and on to a more appropriate feeling toward her birth son. I felt the same way - I didn't ask for the feelings, I didn't want to lose either my family or my son. However, because I was not able to behave appropriately (our relationship included sex), both of those fears were realized.

I continue to work at re-building a relationship with my husband and our children, but my relinquished son is once again relinquished. This is directly due to my ignorance about GSA and my fear of expressing my attraction/sexual feelings toward my son - either to my husband or to my therapist. I feel like I have abandoned my son in order to keep the rest of my family. Have you ever seen the movie, "Sophie's choice"? Well, I feel like I have made the same kind of choice and he has been sacrificed.

Looking back, I realize now that it was the secret that gave power to the feelings. Saying it out loud (no matter how scary that may feel) to someone you trust loosens the grip. Keeping the relationship 'public' - never placing yourselves in a situation that lends itself to inappropriate behavior is another way to reduce risk of having sex with this young man. Even when you discuss you feelings about him to him, I would suggest that you have someone else present.

I wish the best for you and your son (and the rest of your family). Please stay in touch.

5Kmom

otherwise_normal · 07-15-2007, 05:51 PM

Dear 5KMOM thanks for your support
I'm so sorry you had to relinquish your son twice. OMG that's my biggest fear. Well actually my second biggest, the first being loosing my family.

Thanks for your advice. Your right talking about it does help, and I have in what I consider safe forums. Here, at my cub meeting, on my firstmothers forum, and with friends I have made on cafemom. oh and of course with my therapist Marlou Russell, barb, and nancy verrier via email. I consider myself so fortunate to have women who have been there before me and can help. I weep for those poor women in the 50's and 60's and what they went through.

My son and I also became sexual, but not full blown sexual relationship, if you know what I mean. On Nancy's advice we talked about it, acknowledged it, and have agreed to move on. we also set ground rules regarding safe places and behaviour. I'm glad we talked about it and still do occasionally and i'm glad that we dont pretend it never happened. I showed him the passage in "the primal wound" so he knows we are not complete freaks. However, I'm aware that as he matures he might not be as ok with it and things could still go horribly wrong.

I'm lucky that he lives pretty close and we see each other regularly. My plan is to see him so often that he, and his smelly feet, becomes just another annoying teen. It's actually working, along with all the other support I'm getting, and my GSA feelings arn't nearly as often as they were even as they were when I joined this and other groups. I'm healing! I don't cry nearly as often now either.

Thanks for listening and for your advice.

LittleBoo · 07-16-2007, 10:08 PM

The problem that I have, and i think that some people in this thread may feel the same, is that I want to have a father/daughter relationship with my father, but I also want to be intimate with him... since things are one sided that latter will never happen, but it doesnt stop me from desiring it... which is the tough bit... this must be some biological glitch or something. Sorry for repeating what many have already said, but its very exhausting, and depressing... know you want what you can never, or should never (?) have. When I cant control my love, the bad thing is it mutates into hatred. I think I am going nuts!!

LB

5Kmom · 07-16-2007, 11:28 PM

What you are feeling is normal - what child doesn't want a child/parent relationship with a parent??? So, you know you want what every child wants. Your father is fortunate if he does not have GSA feelings toward you and that fortune may be the "key" to developing a father/daughter relationship with him. By keeping your relationship public, you may be able to move through the intensity of the sexual feelings you are having toward him at this point in your relationship. Talk, talk, talk about the feelings you are having - to a professional and, preferably, with your father present. Then, with assistance, the two of you may be able to begin developing the relationship you both desire.

I'm not sure what you mean when you use the phrase: When I can't control my love... Could you elaborate on that to better clarify what you are saying, please? I don't believe you hate him - any more than a child actually 'hates' the parent who sets boundaries. You are probably feeling frustration and anger - both natural feelings when faced with something we can't have. Again - don't berate yourself. Those feelings just need to be talked about. What does your father 'do' that causes those feelings?

You are not going nuts - you are just experiencing the confusion and conflict of emotions that result when a birth bond is broken or delayed. Keep expressing yourself. Keep sharing your feelings. Keep in touch.

5Kmom

LittleBoo · 07-25-2007, 11:43 PM

Hi 5Kmon, thanks for your post there, I did not mean to distract away from the main thread. My situtation is quite complex with a lot of deep family history.

I was not adopted so I dont quite fit with the general mold. I was always brought up that my dad was some kinda evil monster who robbed my mother of everything that was decent/good in her life, so I still have this... distrust I suppose, about a peice of history where I did not even exist. So I have these confusing conflicted feelings... some sort of weird love that is quite probably inappropriate, and then a real distaste when I think about my mother, and then guilt because I love him when I should hate him... Bleh... confusing? Thats how I feel!

And what he *does* to make me feel like this? Absolutely nothing. And I cannot express myself to him, I am too scared.

But I iget silly jealous over his other children, particularly his daughter. I suppose thats normal too right? Just gets me so wound up because my mum was all alone and we were not very well off, and he and his family live pretty well off...

Bleh I am waffling, and have probably said to much. But you can see how I would feel like I am going nuts right?

BarbGonyo · 07-26-2007, 11:36 AM

First I want to say that you are getting some great feedback from 5KMom. Her wisdom comes from experience and is well stated.

I wanted to add a few words to encourage you from feeling so strange about your feelings toward your father.

My sense of what you are saying is that you are so conflicted by your mothers feelings for him that you feel torn about what it is you should feel about your father. I would encourage you to let your mothers feelings remain her feelings about him. They don't belong to you.

She may have good reason to be angry with him but your need for a father in which you see none of what your mother sees because it is her issue, is too much for you to try to juggle.

Of course you love your father. It may be that he has turned out to be a wonderful man and a wonderful father to his other children which of course makes you sad that they have him and you didn't.

You are still that little girl inside wanting her daddy but you are grown and he is grown and the feelings get misplaced.

Sex is not what would fix this or bring all those years unspent together alright.

What you need is to develop a caring relationship. You are fortunate that he is not feeling the same way and if he is, he is restraining himself because it would almost be as if it were a man molesting his daughter even if she was the one anniciating it. Why? Because emotionally that little girl is still in there trying to win her father the only way she knows how as a woman.

Does this explain any of this to you? I hope you can see what I'm trying to get across. No, you are not crazy.......No you are not discusting.....No you can't be his lover.........You are his daughter and he is your father. It is hard to develop a relationship with someone who has been missing in your life for so long and who comes to you with all the horror stories attached.

Give yourself some slack and take your time and become his daughter. He too needs time to fit you into his life as I don't know how his other family takes to you since you haven't stated that.

Look up, things can and do get better and you will be a much stronger person when you can look back on this and wonder why you ever felt that way.

I am a survivor and know it happens. We can get through it.

Barb G

BarbGonyo · 07-26-2007, 11:36 AM

First I want to say that you are getting some great feedback from 5KMom. Her wisdom comes from experience and is well stated.

I wanted to add a few words to encourage you from feeling so strange about your feelings toward your father.

My sense of what you are saying is that you are so conflicted by your mothers feelings for him that you feel torn about what it is you should feel about your father. I would encourage you to let your mothers feelings remain her feelings about him. They don't belong to you.

She may have good reason to be angry with him but your need for a father in which you see none of what your mother sees because it is her issue, is too much for you to try to juggle.

Of course you love your father. It may be that he has turned out to be a wonderful man and a wonderful father to his other children which of course makes you sad that they have him and you didn't.

You are still that little girl inside wanting her daddy but you are grown and he is grown and the feelings get misplaced.

Sex is not what would fix this or bring all those years unspent together alright.

What you need is to develop a caring relationship. You are fortunate that he is not feeling the same way and if he is, he is restraining himself because it would almost be as if it were a man molesting his daughter even if she was the one anniciating it. Why? Because emotionally that little girl is still in there trying to win her father the only way she knows how as a woman.

Does this explain any of this to you? I hope you can see what I'm trying to get across. No, you are not crazy.......No you are not discusting.....No you can't be his lover.........You are his daughter and he is your father. It is hard to develop a relationship with someone who has been missing in your life for so long and who comes to you with all the horror stories attached.

Give yourself some slack and take your time and become his daughter. He too needs time to fit you into his life as I don't know how his other family takes to you since you haven't stated that.

Look up, things can and do get better and you will be a much stronger person when you can look back on this and wonder why you ever felt that way.

I am a survivor and know it happens. We can get through it.

Barb G

5Kmom · 08-30-2007, 11:10 PM

Dear aalex - I wonder if 'talking' with "Victor" could give you some insight into your adopted daughter's thoughts/feelings. He is involved in a close relationship with his reunited bio-daughter and they are carefully weighing out all of the issues in their situation. I only know that in my own experience, even though my bio-son and I couldn't name the emotions we had for each other, the pull to connect or bond was overpowering - so much so that it caused me to act outside of the vows of my marriage (and not even think that it WAS acting out!) We felt that we were trying to recapture what was lost due to the adoption - and I still believe that. However, the reality of what we were doing was not acceptable or congruent with the health of our marriages. When my husband discovered our relationship, my son and I were separated and it may be forever. I am still struggling with that outcome. I believe my son is struggling as well, but since I have not been able to speak to him, I have no way of knowing what's in his head or his heart.

I will keep watching for your posts and will pray that things work out safely for your daughter.

5Kmom

Victor · 08-31-2007, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5Kmom

I only know that in my own experience, even though my bio-son and I couldn't name the emotions we had for each other, the pull to connect or bond was overpowering - so much so that it caused me to act outside of the vows of my marriage (and not even think that it WAS acting out!) We felt that we were trying to recapture what was lost due to the adoption - and I still believe that.

Even my own psychologist agrees with this....that what we are trying to accomplish here is the act of bonding. The difference here is that instead of this being this little child that you can kiss on and caress, it's an adult with sexual feelings like your own. What is normally very intimate anyway is made complicated by the fact of his abilility to respond intimately to that intimacy. It really would help to act on some of your needs and drives, only without letting it become sexual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5Kmom

However, the reality of what we were doing was not acceptable or congruent with the health of our marriages. When my husband discovered our relationship, my son and I were separated and it may be forever. I am still struggling with that outcome. I believe my son is struggling as well, but since I have not been able to speak to him, I have no way of knowing what's in his head or his heart.

In my own case, my spouse didn't wait for us to cross that line. She outright accused us of having crossed it and forbade us contact. She forced me to choose, and instead of choosing her, I chose my daughter. My wife and I are now separated and in the process of an ugly divorce.

My daughter has told me that should her husband do the same -- forbid us contact-- not because of anything we have already done, but for what we might do, that she too will choose me over him. In my case my children were all grown and married. In my daughter's case there are no children at all. We can choose our spouses but not our blood relations.

I understand why he would forbid you, but his actions are selfish all the same. If he cared at all he would try to realize the difficulty your bonding is creating for you and try to help you form that bond without crossing that line. ( I have a theory that the Westermarck effect can still kick in even in this late stage of the game, but it requires contact over many years.) You might want to reevaluate his own "love" for you. Love is NEVER selfish.

07-26-2007, 11:36 AM	#17
BarbGonyo Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 291	to Little Boo First I want to say that you are getting some great feedback from 5KMom. Her wisdom comes from experience and is well stated. I wanted to add a few words to encourage you from feeling so strange about your feelings toward your father. My sense of what you are saying is that you are so conflicted by your mothers feelings for him that you feel torn about what it is you should feel about your father. I would encourage you to let your mothers feelings remain her feelings about him. They don't belong to you. She may have good reason to be angry with him but your need for a father in which you see none of what your mother sees because it is her issue, is too much for you to try to juggle. Of course you love your father. It may be that he has turned out to be a wonderful man and a wonderful father to his other children which of course makes you sad that they have him and you didn't. You are still that little girl inside wanting her daddy but you are grown and he is grown and the feelings get misplaced. Sex is not what would fix this or bring all those years unspent together alright. What you need is to develop a caring relationship. You are fortunate that he is not feeling the same way and if he is, he is restraining himself because it would almost be as if it were a man molesting his daughter even if she was the one anniciating it. Why? Because emotionally that little girl is still in there trying to win her father the only way she knows how as a woman. Does this explain any of this to you? I hope you can see what I'm trying to get across. No, you are not crazy.......No you are not discusting.....No you can't be his lover.........You are his daughter and he is your father. It is hard to develop a relationship with someone who has been missing in your life for so long and who comes to you with all the horror stories attached. Give yourself some slack and take your time and become his daughter. He too needs time to fit you into his life as I don't know how his other family takes to you since you haven't stated that. Look up, things can and do get better and you will be a much stronger person when you can look back on this and wonder why you ever felt that way. I am a survivor and know it happens. We can get through it. Barb G __________________ Barbara is the author of "I'm His Mother,but He's Not My Son" (formerly titled "The Forbidden Love, GSA". In the paper back edition of Forbidden Love, there are a total of 20 books left in that form. "The Forbidden Love Genetic Sexual Attraction is $15.00 plus postage and handling. Postage varies in places. In the U.S. postage comes to $2.31 Austrailia Fast Slower $8.40 one week $4.05- 4 weeks New I'm His Mother, but, He's Not My Son" will now be available electronically for your convience. The price is $15.00 check made out to Barbara Gonyo 906 Ioka Mt. Prospect, IL 60056 Upon receiving the order you will be given instructions on how to obtain the book. I hope this will be helpful to all of you who were having trouble getting the book. Barb Gonyo

07-26-2007, 11:36 AM	#18
BarbGonyo Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 291	to Little Boo First I want to say that you are getting some great feedback from 5KMom. Her wisdom comes from experience and is well stated. I wanted to add a few words to encourage you from feeling so strange about your feelings toward your father. My sense of what you are saying is that you are so conflicted by your mothers feelings for him that you feel torn about what it is you should feel about your father. I would encourage you to let your mothers feelings remain her feelings about him. They don't belong to you. She may have good reason to be angry with him but your need for a father in which you see none of what your mother sees because it is her issue, is too much for you to try to juggle. Of course you love your father. It may be that he has turned out to be a wonderful man and a wonderful father to his other children which of course makes you sad that they have him and you didn't. You are still that little girl inside wanting her daddy but you are grown and he is grown and the feelings get misplaced. Sex is not what would fix this or bring all those years unspent together alright. What you need is to develop a caring relationship. You are fortunate that he is not feeling the same way and if he is, he is restraining himself because it would almost be as if it were a man molesting his daughter even if she was the one anniciating it. Why? Because emotionally that little girl is still in there trying to win her father the only way she knows how as a woman. Does this explain any of this to you? I hope you can see what I'm trying to get across. No, you are not crazy.......No you are not discusting.....No you can't be his lover.........You are his daughter and he is your father. It is hard to develop a relationship with someone who has been missing in your life for so long and who comes to you with all the horror stories attached. Give yourself some slack and take your time and become his daughter. He too needs time to fit you into his life as I don't know how his other family takes to you since you haven't stated that. Look up, things can and do get better and you will be a much stronger person when you can look back on this and wonder why you ever felt that way. I am a survivor and know it happens. We can get through it. Barb G __________________ Barbara is the author of "I'm His Mother,but He's Not My Son" (formerly titled "The Forbidden Love, GSA". In the paper back edition of Forbidden Love, there are a total of 20 books left in that form. "The Forbidden Love Genetic Sexual Attraction is $15.00 plus postage and handling. Postage varies in places. In the U.S. postage comes to $2.31 Austrailia Fast Slower $8.40 one week $4.05- 4 weeks New I'm His Mother, but, He's Not My Son" will now be available electronically for your convience. The price is $15.00 check made out to Barbara Gonyo 906 Ioka Mt. Prospect, IL 60056 Upon receiving the order you will be given instructions on how to obtain the book. I hope this will be helpful to all of you who were having trouble getting the book. Barb Gonyo

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06-22-2007, 06:53 AM	#11
reunitedbutconfused Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 43	otherwise normal- I understand what you are saying & that is how I feel -I want nothing more than to feel "appropriate feelings" for my hb & I am working really hard towards that & altho I still feel incredibly attracted to him I am not acting on it & remain that I never will again as I know it spells DISASTER for us both & for us is not the way forward ( I appreciate the other side tho for those who do want to be together as well). I agree it is terrifying but I do think being strong helps as I no longer feel "blown around" by the GSA but more in control.

06-26-2007, 10:13 PM	#12
5Kmom Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 36	For "Otherwise Normal": Thanks for being so open about your struggles. It isn't easy to move through these feelings - ask Barb. She mentions on the home page about spending 13 years to get through those feelings and on to a more appropriate feeling toward her birth son. I felt the same way - I didn't ask for the feelings, I didn't want to lose either my family or my son. However, because I was not able to behave appropriately (our relationship included sex), both of those fears were realized. I continue to work at re-building a relationship with my husband and our children, but my relinquished son is once again relinquished. This is directly due to my ignorance about GSA and my fear of expressing my attraction/sexual feelings toward my son - either to my husband or to my therapist. I feel like I have abandoned my son in order to keep the rest of my family. Have you ever seen the movie, "Sophie's choice"? Well, I feel like I have made the same kind of choice and he has been sacrificed. Looking back, I realize now that it was the secret that gave power to the feelings. Saying it out loud (no matter how scary that may feel) to someone you trust loosens the grip. Keeping the relationship 'public' - never placing yourselves in a situation that lends itself to inappropriate behavior is another way to reduce risk of having sex with this young man. Even when you discuss you feelings about him to him, I would suggest that you have someone else present. I wish the best for you and your son (and the rest of your family). Please stay in touch. 5Kmom

07-15-2007, 05:51 PM	#13
otherwise_normal Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 5	Dear 5KMOM thanks for your support I'm so sorry you had to relinquish your son twice. OMG that's my biggest fear. Well actually my second biggest, the first being loosing my family. Thanks for your advice. Your right talking about it does help, and I have in what I consider safe forums. Here, at my cub meeting, on my firstmothers forum, and with friends I have made on cafemom. oh and of course with my therapist Marlou Russell, barb, and nancy verrier via email. I consider myself so fortunate to have women who have been there before me and can help. I weep for those poor women in the 50's and 60's and what they went through. My son and I also became sexual, but not full blown sexual relationship, if you know what I mean. On Nancy's advice we talked about it, acknowledged it, and have agreed to move on. we also set ground rules regarding safe places and behaviour. I'm glad we talked about it and still do occasionally and i'm glad that we dont pretend it never happened. I showed him the passage in "the primal wound" so he knows we are not complete freaks. However, I'm aware that as he matures he might not be as ok with it and things could still go horribly wrong. I'm lucky that he lives pretty close and we see each other regularly. My plan is to see him so often that he, and his smelly feet, becomes just another annoying teen. It's actually working, along with all the other support I'm getting, and my GSA feelings arn't nearly as often as they were even as they were when I joined this and other groups. I'm healing! I don't cry nearly as often now either. Thanks for listening and for your advice.

07-16-2007, 10:08 PM	#14
LittleBoo Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 5	The problem that I have, and i think that some people in this thread may feel the same, is that I want to have a father/daughter relationship with my father, but I also want to be intimate with him... since things are one sided that latter will never happen, but it doesnt stop me from desiring it... which is the tough bit... this must be some biological glitch or something. Sorry for repeating what many have already said, but its very exhausting, and depressing... know you want what you can never, or should never (?) have. When I cant control my love, the bad thing is it mutates into hatred. I think I am going nuts!! LB

07-16-2007, 11:28 PM	#15
5Kmom Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 36	What you are feeling is normal - what child doesn't want a child/parent relationship with a parent??? So, you know you want what every child wants. Your father is fortunate if he does not have GSA feelings toward you and that fortune may be the "key" to developing a father/daughter relationship with him. By keeping your relationship public, you may be able to move through the intensity of the sexual feelings you are having toward him at this point in your relationship. Talk, talk, talk about the feelings you are having - to a professional and, preferably, with your father present. Then, with assistance, the two of you may be able to begin developing the relationship you both desire. I'm not sure what you mean when you use the phrase: When I can't control my love... Could you elaborate on that to better clarify what you are saying, please? I don't believe you hate him - any more than a child actually 'hates' the parent who sets boundaries. You are probably feeling frustration and anger - both natural feelings when faced with something we can't have. Again - don't berate yourself. Those feelings just need to be talked about. What does your father 'do' that causes those feelings? You are not going nuts - you are just experiencing the confusion and conflict of emotions that result when a birth bond is broken or delayed. Keep expressing yourself. Keep sharing your feelings. Keep in touch. 5Kmom

07-25-2007, 11:43 PM	#16
LittleBoo Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 5	Hi 5Kmon, thanks for your post there, I did not mean to distract away from the main thread. My situtation is quite complex with a lot of deep family history. I was not adopted so I dont quite fit with the general mold. I was always brought up that my dad was some kinda evil monster who robbed my mother of everything that was decent/good in her life, so I still have this... distrust I suppose, about a peice of history where I did not even exist. So I have these confusing conflicted feelings... some sort of weird love that is quite probably inappropriate, and then a real distaste when I think about my mother, and then guilt because I love him when I should hate him... Bleh... confusing? Thats how I feel! And what he does to make me feel like this? Absolutely nothing. And I cannot express myself to him, I am too scared. But I iget silly jealous over his other children, particularly his daughter. I suppose thats normal too right? Just gets me so wound up because my mum was all alone and we were not very well off, and he and his family live pretty well off... Bleh I am waffling, and have probably said to much. But you can see how I would feel like I am going nuts right?

08-30-2007, 11:10 PM	#19
5Kmom Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 36	Dear aalex - I wonder if 'talking' with "Victor" could give you some insight into your adopted daughter's thoughts/feelings. He is involved in a close relationship with his reunited bio-daughter and they are carefully weighing out all of the issues in their situation. I only know that in my own experience, even though my bio-son and I couldn't name the emotions we had for each other, the pull to connect or bond was overpowering - so much so that it caused me to act outside of the vows of my marriage (and not even think that it WAS acting out!) We felt that we were trying to recapture what was lost due to the adoption - and I still believe that. However, the reality of what we were doing was not acceptable or congruent with the health of our marriages. When my husband discovered our relationship, my son and I were separated and it may be forever. I am still struggling with that outcome. I believe my son is struggling as well, but since I have not been able to speak to him, I have no way of knowing what's in his head or his heart. I will keep watching for your posts and will pray that things work out safely for your daughter. 5Kmom