Forbidden Love ( Australian Story ) - Page 2

Danielle Heaney · 04-08-2008, 03:07 AM

Being a victim or a survivour of sexual abuse for half my life i strongly disagree with Victor about it being an illness.

Its sick and twisted and there is victims that find it impossible to get on with there lives.

It ruins a person.

Just thought i would put my bit in.

Danielle

jen · 04-08-2008, 05:38 AM

posted by ebmum.
Ok, I get that a reunion with a loved one, particulary a parent or sibling would be a huge deal, overwhelming, full of emotion and love etc. However what I find hard to digest is the fact that you would take that relationship to a sexual one.

Okay - I am going to out on a limb with this one. I'm not sure how successful this will be at getting my point across, you may well find it totally irrelevant and miss my point entirely. I have no doubt that many members who do understand GSA will also not get it. Perhaps in fact its not the best way to illustrate what i'm trying to say, but what the hell.

In order for this to work you are going to have to use your imagination and go with me for a while. Hopefully it will make some sense in the end. Also for the purposes of this exercise there is no such thing as divorce and if you are married it is against the law not to have sex on with your husband or wife on a Monday - (told you i was going out on limb)

Lets imagine that one Monday morning, you are going about your business when two strangers walk into the room. You greet them and ask if you can help them and one of the men says yes - i'd like to introduce to your husband, and indicates the second stranger - lets call him Jack. Now somewhere in the back of your mind you know you are infact married - you just never expected it to have much impact on your life. You look at the two men - and say "i don't know him - hes not my husband" and Jack says - " see I told you, some one had made a mistake - this is ridiculous, I want to speak to whoevers in charge". The first stranger says - i'm sorry but theres no mistake you two are infact husband and wife and therefore have to spend the rest of your lives together - and while he is speaking he produces passports and a marriage certificate, which do infact prove beyond any doubt that this stranger - whom you have no recollection of ever meeting before - actually is your husband.

So with all the formalities out of the way, you and Jack are sent home. When you arrive home - you turn to your family and say "you are never gonna believe what happened today", you try and explain the days events and introduce them to Jack. They are like yeah - must be awful strange......"Strange" you say "thats the understatement of the century"..... but sure you knew you were married, you must have expected it to happen one day, someone says. You and Jack are looking at them all, neither of you can believe how calm they are reacting. All you can think of is this situation is mad - why are we the only ones who can see it..... But what can you do. You decide to forget about it for now, you'll try to get some sleep and deal with it in the morning. Things are always much better after a good nights sleep. Sorry Jack, you say - we've no spare room - will you be okay on the couch ? - don't worry about me he answers i'll be fine here
Every one gasps - but.... but its Monday someone says....... Suddenly it occurs to you - these people are expecting you to have sex with this man - a complete stranger you have only met today! They cannot be serious - are they nuts - of course you know, when you are married not to have sex on a Monday is breaking the law, but how can this law apply to you and Jack. Yes technically you are husband and wife - but in reality you are strangers.
You have never broken any law before - and if you ever were going to break one - this is the last one you thought it would be. You'd have staked your life on it - you've heard about other people doing it but you've never agreed with or understood them. You never imagined for one second you'd even consider doing something like this. Not having sex with your spouse on a Monday is crazy for Gods sake its against the law - but this is different. You and Jack have never had the time together most other husbands and wifes have had. You don't feel like husband and wife. You and Jack are not like a "normal" husband and wife - you have no memory of the day you married - you have never had the opportunity to build the normal connections other husbands and wives have formed. Why is it so wrong not to want to have sex with this man.

So what do you do.? This law is centuries old - its exists for a good reason - you arent exactly sure what that reason is something to do with genetics - but you know its a very good reason. Do you bite the bullet and do what society expects you to do - even though it is going against every thing you are feeling now. Or do you follow your heart.

I know this is a bit left field - but its sort of like the mirror image of gsa - if you know what i mean. Basically, what i am trying to say - the only thing that tells us its "wrong" is a piece of paper and public opinion - perhaps I should have just written that at the beginning

EBMum - does it help you at all to under stand why some of us can and do cross the line?

Jen

communityawareness · 04-08-2008, 05:45 AM

In response to the baby born to the gsa couple who died of congenital heart defect. Some media have said he was still born. He lived for 4 days and his name was Jackson. The father had a child born in 1966 that died of the same congenital defect. This was to a 'normal' relationship. The men in his family carry the gene and there is a child born to his brother that had the same problem. This defect was in no way related to the relationship of father and daughter. Their baby girl , Celeste, is normal in everyway and is a bouncy baby with a real zest for life.

Nicola · 04-08-2008, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by communityawareness

In response to the baby born to the gsa couple who died of congenital heart defect. Some media have said he was still born. He lived for 4 days and his name was Jackson. The father had a child born in 1966 that died of the same congenital defect. This was to a 'normal' relationship. The men in his family carry the gene and there is a child born to his brother that had the same problem. This defect was in no way related to the relationship of father and daughter. Their baby girl , Celeste, is normal in everyway and is a bouncy baby with a real zest for life.

Celeste is your baby?

Juan · 04-08-2008, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Ok, I get that a reunion with a loved one, particulary a parent or sibling would be a huge deal, overwhelming, full of emotion and love etc. However what I find hard to digest is the fact that you would take that relationship to a sexual one.

The point that is well made in GSA-related literature is that:

1) the intense emotions which reunited couples can experience for each other cannot be easily 'contained' within the physical boundaries established through the bonding process that occurs in a normal familial context.

2) people unfamiliar with GSA need to appreciate that the normal concept of 'family' does not apply to those who experience a reunion with immediate birth relatives. For these people, 'Mum and Dad' are the folks who raised them, while their brothers and sisters are the siblings they grew up with. The idea of having any sexual contact with these adopted family members is universally viewed as abhorrent.

EBMum, you may find it hard to digest... but you're in good company. So do those who experience GSA.

Victor · 04-08-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle Heaney

Being a victim or a survivour of sexual abuse for half my life i strongly disagree with Victor about it being an illness.

Its sick and twisted and there is victims that find it impossible to get on with there lives.

It ruins a person.

Just thought i would put my bit in.

Danielle

Even an illness can have a destructive affect on others.

Danielle Heaney · 04-09-2008, 01:53 PM

Hi Victor.

my first uncle that abused me was brain damaged because he drove in to a wall but the second uncle that abused me for 11 years is all there in the head

D

Victor · 04-09-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBMum

It is familiarity that subdues the genetic sexual attraction that we would otheriwse have for our relatives.

Quoting you Victor, so what about a Father/Daughter, Mother/Son, Sister/Brother who indeed did grow up together who practiced an incestual relationship, is their relationship wrong? I just want some clarification here.

Yes it is. GSA is caused by a lifetime of absence, which prevents the westermarck effect from imprinting the person's sexual psyche with a revultion toward members of one's family unit. But those who have incest inspite of the existence of that family connection between them have more going on in their heads than just a missing westermarck effect. I have other children who I would never think sexually about. I used to think like you, that incest, ANY incest is wrong. And then I found my daughter from an old relationship. I wasn't there when she was born. And I have the most profound sexual desires for her. I'm not her dad....I wansn't the man that raised her. To me, she is a stranger who just happens to share my likes and dislikes, who has a face I trust and love. She is like any other woman I have fallen in love with, but then again I have never fallen this hard before. It is the genetic similarities between us that drives the sexual desire higher. We are imbued with a natural instinct to survive on a number of levels: individually, genetically, specieally. It is our nature to try to purpetuate our own DNA into the future; to survive beyond our own natural life. The closer the genetic match, the stronger the sexual drive. So yes, because she is my "genetic" daughter, she is my closest genetic match, and she triggers my strongest sexual desires. Is it wrong? I'm not destroying the family unit I raised. Or the one she was raised in. Only society and society's narrow minded laws tell me its wrong. It's like 50 years ago when two people of different races, if they fell in love, it was wrong because of society and society's narrow minded laws. We've at least fixed those laws, and are now fixing the laws that stood between those of a same sex love. I just wonder how long we have to wait before our genetics are no longer a barrier to our love.

Victor · 04-09-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle Heaney

Hi Victor.

my first uncle that abused me was brain damaged because he drove in to a wall but the second uncle that abused me for 11 years is all there in the head

D

I'm sorry for what has happened to you, Danielle. There is no excuse for their behavior, even if it is a mental illness to do it to a prepubecent.

communityawareness · 04-09-2008, 04:54 PM

Danielle My heart is with you and what happened to you should never happen to anyone.
Victor well put again. It will take a long time to change societies point of view but we are gaining strength in number and we need to stick together.

04-08-2008, 03:07 AM	#11
Danielle Heaney Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: scotland Posts: 34	paedophilia Being a victim or a survivour of sexual abuse for half my life i strongly disagree with Victor about it being an illness. Its sick and twisted and there is victims that find it impossible to get on with there lives. It ruins a person. Just thought i would put my bit in. Danielle __________________ WE WILL MAKE IT

04-08-2008, 05:38 AM	#12
jen Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Born in the US, currently residing in Nottingham Posts: 92	posted by ebmum. Ok, I get that a reunion with a loved one, particulary a parent or sibling would be a huge deal, overwhelming, full of emotion and love etc. However what I find hard to digest is the fact that you would take that relationship to a sexual one. Okay - I am going to out on a limb with this one. I'm not sure how successful this will be at getting my point across, you may well find it totally irrelevant and miss my point entirely. I have no doubt that many members who do understand GSA will also not get it. Perhaps in fact its not the best way to illustrate what i'm trying to say, but what the hell. In order for this to work you are going to have to use your imagination and go with me for a while. Hopefully it will make some sense in the end. Also for the purposes of this exercise there is no such thing as divorce and if you are married it is against the law not to have sex on with your husband or wife on a Monday - (told you i was going out on limb) Lets imagine that one Monday morning, you are going about your business when two strangers walk into the room. You greet them and ask if you can help them and one of the men says yes - i'd like to introduce to your husband, and indicates the second stranger - lets call him Jack. Now somewhere in the back of your mind you know you are infact married - you just never expected it to have much impact on your life. You look at the two men - and say "i don't know him - hes not my husband" and Jack says - " see I told you, some one had made a mistake - this is ridiculous, I want to speak to whoevers in charge". The first stranger says - i'm sorry but theres no mistake you two are infact husband and wife and therefore have to spend the rest of your lives together - and while he is speaking he produces passports and a marriage certificate, which do infact prove beyond any doubt that this stranger - whom you have no recollection of ever meeting before - actually is your husband. So with all the formalities out of the way, you and Jack are sent home. When you arrive home - you turn to your family and say "you are never gonna believe what happened today", you try and explain the days events and introduce them to Jack. They are like yeah - must be awful strange......"Strange" you say "thats the understatement of the century"..... but sure you knew you were married, you must have expected it to happen one day, someone says. You and Jack are looking at them all, neither of you can believe how calm they are reacting. All you can think of is this situation is mad - why are we the only ones who can see it..... But what can you do. You decide to forget about it for now, you'll try to get some sleep and deal with it in the morning. Things are always much better after a good nights sleep. Sorry Jack, you say - we've no spare room - will you be okay on the couch ? - don't worry about me he answers i'll be fine here Every one gasps - but.... but its Monday someone says....... Suddenly it occurs to you - these people are expecting you to have sex with this man - a complete stranger you have only met today! They cannot be serious - are they nuts - of course you know, when you are married not to have sex on a Monday is breaking the law, but how can this law apply to you and Jack. Yes technically you are husband and wife - but in reality you are strangers. You have never broken any law before - and if you ever were going to break one - this is the last one you thought it would be. You'd have staked your life on it - you've heard about other people doing it but you've never agreed with or understood them. You never imagined for one second you'd even consider doing something like this. Not having sex with your spouse on a Monday is crazy for Gods sake its against the law - but this is different. You and Jack have never had the time together most other husbands and wifes have had. You don't feel like husband and wife. You and Jack are not like a "normal" husband and wife - you have no memory of the day you married - you have never had the opportunity to build the normal connections other husbands and wives have formed. Why is it so wrong not to want to have sex with this man. So what do you do.? This law is centuries old - its exists for a good reason - you arent exactly sure what that reason is something to do with genetics - but you know its a very good reason. Do you bite the bullet and do what society expects you to do - even though it is going against every thing you are feeling now. Or do you follow your heart. I know this is a bit left field - but its sort of like the mirror image of gsa - if you know what i mean. Basically, what i am trying to say - the only thing that tells us its "wrong" is a piece of paper and public opinion - perhaps I should have just written that at the beginning EBMum - does it help you at all to under stand why some of us can and do cross the line? Jen Last edited by jen : 04-08-2008 at 10:20 AM.

04-09-2008, 01:53 PM	#17
Danielle Heaney Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: scotland Posts: 34	Hi Victor. my first uncle that abused me was brain damaged because he drove in to a wall but the second uncle that abused me for 11 years is all there in the head D __________________ WE WILL MAKE IT

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04-08-2008, 05:45 AM	#13
communityawareness Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 30	In response to the baby born to the gsa couple who died of congenital heart defect. Some media have said he was still born. He lived for 4 days and his name was Jackson. The father had a child born in 1966 that died of the same congenital defect. This was to a 'normal' relationship. The men in his family carry the gene and there is a child born to his brother that had the same problem. This defect was in no way related to the relationship of father and daughter. Their baby girl , Celeste, is normal in everyway and is a bouncy baby with a real zest for life.

04-09-2008, 04:54 PM	#20
communityawareness Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 30	Danielle My heart is with you and what happened to you should never happen to anyone. Victor well put again. It will take a long time to change societies point of view but we are gaining strength in number and we need to stick together.