To Red.String of Fate

[cedarforest]

Actually, I think being concerned with a favorable outcome (hopefully the most favorable one possible, & for ALL caught in the GSA web), is my concern. The legal ramifications of incest, certainly plays a part in that.

While I VERY much resonate with the people who deal with GSA, I have a bleeding heart for the "innocent ones", those I call colatteral damage, too. It's not good when Daddy goes to prison, b/c he & his long lost mother/sister/relative, break the law.

My point to you was simply to point out a glaring error (IMO), on your part, when you say that sex is NOT the problem in a GSA relationship. GSA involves those participating, as well as a slew of innocent people. I've spent over two & a half years trying to relate how sex was the VERY thing that destroyed a relationship that was so so precious to me. To hear you say what you said, kinda made me come back with a "smark-alexly retort". I'm sorry about that part, but you are wrong in making such a statement. And as always, I'll add that I'm speaking from my experience & it's my opinion. --cedarforest

[art4me]

Originally Posted by Vin Rohm

I'm sorry Cedar. I thought we were supposed to be more concerned with the psychology of GSA rather than the Law.

It has been noted and discussed in many ways on this forum to look at many aspects that indirectly and directly effect those experiencing GSA. And it MUST continue from a holistic point of view. It will serve all coming here to be reminded of the many influences that effect their GSA experience including...

• The Law
• The Psycology
• The impact of GSA on Close and Extended Family
• The Emotional
• The Needing for Attachment
• The Spiritual
• Morals
• Ethics
• Society Influences
• Sex or 'crossing the line'
• Betrayal
• Children indirectly involved because one of the GSA members is a parent
• Religion and beliefs the GSA member has that they are wrestling with
• Guilt
• Forgiveness
• Lust vs. Love
• Depression, and/or Suicide
• Manipulation
  

...I can go on and on. My point is if serves all who are coming here wounded, afraid and lost that we have many resources and knowledge to help guide them.

It was Cedar who told me that what I was contemplating with my dad was illegal and if found out, it could have repercussions of me losing my children. When my libido was out of control that was the one thing that stuck in my head when all other resistant measures failed, and gave me the determination to hold the line for myself.

[fullmarriageequality]

It would be wonderful if people who deal with their GSA without the intrusion of the law. GSA present situations that are difficult enough as it is without the force of the government coming in and telling consenting adults what they can't do in a bed.

[myshadow]

Personally, I'm glad we have these laws in place.

If it stops just one person from causing more harm
to themselves or others, Then the law has served it's purpose.

[cedarforest]

Yes, that is true, but we have to live in a world of reality, not "wishful thinking". Those in our imperfect world, who would exploit & pillage those who hold opinions such as yours, FME, are the reasons we MUST have laws. By opinions, I'm referring to the fact that you feel that laws are bad.

I, too, wish we lived in a world where everyone would do the right thing, & not use their "freedoms" to hurt others. But we don't, & that's the reality of our world. Laws are imperfect, & yes, they do intrude on good people's freedoms, but they also provide protection from those who would harm & devour the innocent. As unfortunate as laws can be, they do more to protect the innocent, than they do to punish the innocent (IMO).--cedarforest

[Champion_reborn]

In the past, and in some cases still today, there were/are laws against sodomy (specifically pertaining to anal sex as the legal definition of sodomy can vary from what is generally thought of as sodomy), sex toys, and the like. These laws were used to try to force or coerce people such as gays and lesbians to conform to what other people felt should be the role of a male or female person. In the cases where these people would not conform they (the laws) were used to punish. Many courageous homosexual people fought these laws to gain SOME rights in this society. As tax paying citizens they should have every right afforded to every other tax paying citizen of this country (IMO). As people who are dealing with situations of adults deciding to be together as a choice with no coercion, manipulation, deceit, or other means of "forcing" that decision, then why should an outside force (eg government) truly care? I understand the argument of inbreeding, well under that argument then the government should limit the reproduction of all citizens unless genetic testing is done to ensure that both parents aren't carrying a genetic defect (I have personally seen what can happen when two parents unknowingly carry certain defective genes that get passed to their child) and that no woman over 44 be allowed to reproduce (as this increase in age greatly increases the likelihood of Down's syndrome).

The argument that GSA relationships cause harm to others, well as do many other type relationships that are perfectly legal. Dad has an affair, falls in love with this other woman and then leaves his wife. The wife is harmed and if there are children they too are harmed. In this case dad isn't sent to prison for his actions, it is just an unfortunate thing that sometimes happens. Maybe dad explains that he didn't mean for this to happen, he didn't mean to have an affair and fall in love; but it happened all the same. Yes, there are civil repercussions (maybe) that can result (other woman being sued for alienation of affection).

Should there be laws against everything or relationship that has the potential for harm? Some people would say yes. Some people would say I am not doing anything "harmful" so yes there should be laws against such things. Then there we all go down a very slippery and treacherous slope that I am sure if people really thought where that can lead they would not want to travel that path.

Yes, I am aware as I am sure it will be pointed out, that these laws already exist and that these relationships are already illegal. At that I will remind everyone ... just because a law exists doesn't necessarily make the law "right". I think many people on here on both sides of this particular argument would look at laws of some other countries that restrict the rights of women and say those laws should not exist. What if those laws were implemented here? Should they just be followed and accepted simply because they are laws or should they be questioned? Yes, laws need to be in place to protect children. Yes, laws need to be in place to protect those who would be raped/sexually assaulted either by force, manipulation or coercion. But do we really need laws to protect two consenting adults from loving each other and yes having a sexual relationship if they so choose?? And if your answer is yes to that question, then why limit it to these relationships?? There are many people who are in legal and still very harmful toxic relationships, perhaps we should find a way to make these potentially harmful relationships illegal. That way the government in it's great wisdom can protect these people from each other too.

I know that the founder of this site does not promote these relationships and I do not mean any disrespect towards her or anyone here that disagrees with me. I am only wishing to make point which makes people take pause to think about these things outside of their own views. I am not even truly trying to change anyone's mind as only each person should be able to keep or change their own views themselves (IMO).

[cedarforest]

As I discussed fairly extensively on another post, with all the mental, emotional, & myriads of extenuating factors that go into defining an adult & consent, there is absolutely no way it can be done in a way that would be acceptable, even to the participants.

If you can think of a fail-proof way to define who is an adult, & what constitutes consent, please tell me. I've love to see a clear & concise definition, that would satisfy everyone who is involved in GSA.--cedarforest

[idalizzie]

Hi everyone

My name is Kate... I am the Moderator of the Reunion_GSA group which is fully functional again by the way...

SisterLost... I have been a member on this site since GSA first began for me back in 2005. I made a choice not to post here when I found a site which supported me in the way I wished to be supported.

I do not post here, nor do I speak to people privately... in my mind, that would undermine the thoughts, beliefs and issues you have with GSA and would be ethically wrong of me to do so given your firm and deep held beliefs of this phenomenon. It is not my job to change other people. It is my job to simply support others, in whatever choice they make for themselves. You and I have never agreed on that.

With the greatest respect to you and Cedarforest...we are all adult enough to know, understand and accept the implications of every aspect of GSA.

So please, to allay any fears you may have that I might sneak in and upset the work you do here... I have no desire or need to do so.

To Roe... God Bless you! Shine your light.. it is a bright one in the midst of darkness... but I do have to say, if you keep bumping your head against a brick wall, you will only end up with a very sore head.

With warmest wishes to all
Kate

[lostsister]

Nice to see you here...

Could you possibly offer a link to reunion GSA..
some of our Members may find an alternate form of support there with you,
that we arent able to offer here.

That would be wonderful of you...

thank you

[roeschoice]

Vin,
Thank you. I seem to have trouble expressing myself, but you have said in a few words, the very thing I was trying to express.

It's the psychology of GSA which needs research, understanding, compassion and so much more acceptance apart and completely separate from someone elses moralistic adherence to a laws and morality.

Thank you Vin.

Roe