To Red.String of Fate

[roeschoice]

Your situation is the same as mine, but in reverse. My son wants only the GSA aspect but not the relationship that goes with it. He loves me, but he doesn't want to commit to that love.

We are unable to be together for a variety of reasons the main one being that as soon as we end up in the same place together, either alone or in a cafe surrounded by other people, even after all these years, those hormones that create GSA affect us both in a very strong and determined way.

He and I have gone through the anger, the arguments, the hateful words, the pure frustration of us both needing to stand in our own power, knowing what we both know, but wanting different things. He loves me. I love him. But he doesn't want to make a commitment to that love. He only wants the GSA - read physical - side of things.

I cannot have a simple mother/son relationship with him because that is not the relationship we have ever had with each other. We have been lovers. We have GSA. We have never been mother and son and we never will be. The time for that is long gone. He and I are at an impasse. We have agreed not to see each other or to have further contact. Does that hurt? Sure as hell does, but it doesn't stop me loving him in any way. It means I love him exactly as he is, with no expectations that he should do things MY way.

It wasn't GSA that was the problem between us. It was his inability to have a relationship with me that left me feeling valued. He wanted the physical side of things to continue, but on his terms only. GSA is love. It's the relationships that don't work because of the backgrounds we grew up in, because of the woundedness of some people who come together in this way, because of those layers I talk about.

How does love come into this equation? Thats what GSA is trying to tell you. That is the part that heals us, if we allow it. But some do not allow it because of their beliefs. And that is okay. It just leaves us feeling rather angry and embittered. I know your pain Red. It is real. I too have been on that damned floor crying, but I know I can't carry that anger inside of me. Thats the exact thing I needed to heal. That's the gift we give ourselves in this.

With respect and love
Roe

[cedarforest]

Roe, No disrespect intended, but I'm REALLY having trouble following the logic of your experience & how you relate it on this site. You relate GSA as a gift, maybe it is, but your experience with your son doersn't sound like it to me. For someone to want to use you physically to satisfy their needs & urges, sounds like lust & gross selfishness. You keep saying your son loved you (and you should know better than me), but your words describe a person who is driven by lust & lack of character. Those seem to be the kind of people we DON'T need in our lives. And, it seems your relationship with your son proves it, since you can not be with each other.

What you call love, is not what I call love. Love is kind, love is gentle, love is long suffering, love puts the other's interest ahead of their own interests. Based on your description, I don't see love from your son, not TRUE love.

You seem to be a goodhearted person, & i don't have a personal beef with you. But I really have a hard time understanding why you're so high on others experiencing the "crossing the line aspect" of GSA, when your circumstances turned out so bad. Please enlighten me.--cedarforest

[roeschoice]

In order to understand some of these relationships, one has to learn about what happens when a child is adopted. My son loves me more than he has ever loved anyone, but he has had shitty relationships for his whole life. He is unable to have a healthy relationship with anyone. I love him very much exactly as he is. I just made a choice to love him from a distance. Isn't that unconditional love? I don't have to change him in order to love him. I just don't love his actions.

As I keep saying, there are many layers within this phenomenon called GSA. Adoption/seaparation created it. My son does not know HOW to love. His lack of bonding created that when we were separated. Read the many books out there on what happens to our babies. Read what happens to our unbonded children. It will make you cry. This is my son. How could I not love this person who says I hate you, don't leave me? It wasn't his fault he was adopted. And who better to teach him about love than his own mother who says Oh honey, I love you more than I love life itself, but I do not like your actions. I do not like how you treat me.

My circumstances haven't turned out bad. They have turned out perfectly. This is the gift of healing. My son now has a choice to make in this. He can go away and be the angry little sod who demanded of me and gave nothing much back. But now he knows I will not tolerate being treated that way. He can keep away and make choices in his own growth and healing now. If he wants to. If he doesn't want to, then I will continue to love him, exactly as he is, but I will love him from where I am. If he truly wants to offer me love, then he learns how to offer it. When he heals that angry and hurt place inside himself, is when I know he has done the work to heal. Had I continued in that kind of relationship with him, what would he have learned about love? That it's okay to treat someone badly? Because that is how he has treated everyone up until now.

When he and I are together, he melts. He just turns into someone who is soft, gentle, lovely and relaxed. Those hormones we have churning through our system are the ones that enable the healing. It changes him. Thats' what he comes back to me for. It took me years to understand that. But I enabled his crappy behaviour by letting him call the shots. (a mothers guilt will do that ya know?). It wasn't until I realised I had to change in order to offer him the opportunity to change.

Love is kind. Love is gentle. Love should not be long suffering because love isn't about suffering. And for any love to work, we must put the love we have for ourselves ahead of anybody else's interests or we become doormats, we allow ourselves to be used and abused. Self love is where the healing is. Once we reach that place, we can then love others in a very healthy way. Thats kind of where I used to be - putting others interests ahead of my own. Part of my healing was this very thing.

It is the physical part of GSA that does the true healing. The touch, the smells, the entire physical part of GSA is what heals. That is why we have it. We don't have it to live the rest of our lives in abject misery fighting it off and fighting against it - though most do.

And I think you misread me when you tell me I am so high on others experiencing crossing the line. That is a personal choice for an individual to make for themselves. If that is where they need to be then that is what is best for them but I'm not going to tell anybody it's a bad thing. My experience of GSA has been one of learning about love. And that's a damned fine thing!

With love and respect
Roe

[cedarforest]

I think GSA/GA is one of the greatest (as in best), experiences I've ever had. So, I'm all with ya, when you say the physical part, such as touch, smell, & bonding. It's what you call, the "entire physical part" (AKA sex), that we have an impasse on. Call me a prude, but I feel there are healthy ways & unhealthy ways to live. Sex is a gift, but one to be used specifically, not whenever we "want to". When it's engaged in between siblings & parents/offspring, it's BAD, there's no two ways about it. Of course, since I'm on a site where others will disagree with me, I will preface this by saying this is my opinion. But, society & the legal system will back me up on this.

I say that with full knowledge of the mechanics of GSA, plus I'm one who is a principle offender. Some of our greatest lessons, are learned thru many tears & regrets. I hope others can be spared unnecessary pain.--cedarforest

PS: Love does suffer. We saw my daughter breast feed her 1st born son, born yesterday, just a short time ago. It was a VERY suffering experience for her, but she endured suffering for her love for her son. There are myriads & myriads of times you will "suffer", b/c of love.

And, yes, we must love ourselves enough to not allow ourselves to be mistreated. But there is a huge difference between allowing gross mistreatment, & deferring our interests for the wellbeing of others.

[roeschoice]

I think there are lots and lots of people who have sex when they "want to" - not only those who have GSA. It's what we as human beings do, and some do it more than others, for different reasons, that have nothing whatsoever to do with love. It is a gift, I believe, when the two people who participate, do so when they are on the same level of understanding, whether they're in love or not. Some use just for pleasure. People have been doing it for thousands and thousands of years, and quite well by the sounds of it!!

I think it really is time for society to take a look at itself when it comes to GSA. As long as others believe it is "bad" as you have just admitted to believing, then those of us who continue to feel it is just so damned right, will continue to struggle to change laws that surround this particular issue.

And the thing here is, you cannot spare anyone from experiencing pain. It is part of our growth and healing. It is when we feel pain the most that we take charge of our lives and change what no longer works.

And you are in such a wonderful position now to watch your grandchild bond with it's mother. You will see the absolute beauty and love that those two have for each other, that bonding is happening right before your eyes. THAT is what happens with GSA, only the timing is off. It is years later than when it should have happened. Keep that in mind as you watch your daughter love your grandchild. That is the love of GSA. That is what happens within this love too. Isn't it the most precious thing? THAT love, that bonding? Birthing and bonding are highly involved in what we all know as GSA. We have it because what you are watching with your daughter and grandchild was interrupted for many of us in a very cold and cruel way. The very same hormones that are working on mother and child are the very same ones that come into play in GSA.

Congratulations to you and your family and God Bless that little one. For he or she will know its mother. : )

With respect and love
Roe

[cedarforest]

Roe, it is obvious that you are NOT reading my posts, or you are putting words in my mouth, that is opposite of what I'm saying. You say I admit that GSA is bad. Please reread my 1st sentence, which is totally opposite of what you say that I said. GSA is NOT sex, GSA is the attraction to one another, which includes sexual attraction, but is a FAR cry from the totality of what GSA emcompasses. The fact that you state that "those of us" who feel it is right, will continue to try to change the laws. Roe, the ONLY law is not to have sex! That's our entire difference. You feel that sex can be acceptable with close relatives, I do NOT!!! It's not about GSA, it's about where it leads. Attractions do NOT have to lead to sex. Just as in a traditional relationship, attraction does NOT mean sex will happen. Just as you stated that sex has happened forever, but so has fidelity & chasity. I'll admit that it is not the norm now, but in the past, it was much more so. The sexual revolution, has caused the magnitude of many many problems, that weren't nearly as prevalent, as in the past. One of those problems/issues, is GSA.

But, the point is, PLEASE read my posts & quote me properly. You absolutely missed my whole point, that I tried so hard to make. GSA IS Good, when sex is avoided, but apparently, to you, GSA & sex are inseparatable--cedarforest

[lostsister]

Originally Posted by roeschoice

The very same hormones that are working on mother and child are the very same ones that come into play in GSA.

That is very true,

but not many Mothers dream of having sex with their baby son....

From birth to death this child remains a son to her.....

A mothers Role, does not extend to allowing her Adult son to take pleasure in her body just because he thinks that is what he wants.

Healing takes place on an emotional level..


Having sex with your biological son seems to be something that initially you felt you owed him because, if you denied him, you were not Properly Loving him !
Then you woke up and Decided to STOP enabling his bratty behavior and Offer him
~Unconditional LOVE ~on "the condition" that he only comes near you when he knows how to Treat you properly...
and This is your Gift to yourself..
Your GSA gift..you have learned how to LOVE you to the point that you will distance yourself even from your own son because his behavior effects you negatively.

Its a FACT that Some Sons "punish" their mothers after reunion.
They are angry at being Offered up for adoption,
bewildered by the Instant and Sensual LOVE they Feel for their Birth Mother
and confused as to how to create a maternal relationship with a person who is really a "Familiar Stranger"...
In this instance, a HEALED woman would have MOTHERED the boy....
But in actuality a lot of Women remain terribly scarred and wounded by Adoption Separation.

A woman looking to heal would have seen an opportunity to Fast Track the Ocytocin Drenched yearning for intimacy
and Sexualized the relationship.

Unfortunately the SONS dont get what they are really wanting..

A relationship with their Mothers where in they feel Acknowledged and empowered for the Potential MEN that they are.

When a Mother takes her son as a LOVER, she risks damaging him beyond repair.
He can become unable to differentiate between sensual (that which engages the senses) and the Sexual (that which engages the genitals) and consequently sets in place a life long pattern of Demanding SEX from the women in his life.
For such a son, Sex equals sensual gratification

The Sons who face this scenario are often later disgusted by their Mothers,and this disgust and revolution often turns to hateful behavior and a whole lot of disrespect..
For their Mothers and later for the other women who enter their lives.

You Roe, have clearly moved on and are Grateful for the experience of what GSA brought to your life.
Clearly your SON still has a long way to go..
I hope and pray that he finds a Good and Loving Woman who can guide him in his life because we WOMEN are the ones who are in possession of the Most subtle and Potent Force on this Planet.AS Life bearers it is our Duty to Nurture and Care for all who travel the Road of Life!


Cedar is SENIOR to most of us, in age and in his experience with GSA.
He spends hours of his life GIVING time to people who,s hearts are aching through Lack of Love.....He KNOWS so many things that YOU from your one single pointed line of vision are refusing to see...
That you would come here as you have and continually misunderstand where he is coming from shows me that you are in Denial about the events that have taken place between you and your Son...

I usually dont respond so Harshly...
but to be honest I find the
"pontifical "tone of your mails very irritating..



You remind me of a moderator from another forum who clashed with ME when she constantly missed my point..She saw that I was challenging her opinion when I was simple offering an alternate perspective....She did this with Cedar too come to think of it...

Please Roe..

Do as Cedar Asks and Read his mails properly without missing his point and jumping to conclusions....

Thank you

[cedarforest]

Roe,
Despite what may appear as a somewhat irritated tone from my last email to you, I hope the concern, & the desire to HELP YOU, comes across from both myself & Lostsister.

Despite what you say, I sense a lady who has been hurt, damaged, & is in need. I, personally think you deserve better (much MUCH better), than where you say you are pleased to be. I WANT to offer you the strength & hope that I was able to find. I was 55 years of age, before I allowed my denial, arrogance, & need to control, to succumb to the pain I inflicted upon myself, & others. I begun the process of "seeing myself in truth", less than 5 years ago. I am still very much, a work in process. We are YELLING at you, b/c we care. Best wishes.--cedarforest

[roeschoice]

I am rather sad about the responses I received from you Cedar and you Lostsister. As someone who has spent almost 20 years - since the beginning of my GSA relationship with my son - as someone who has read, researched and dare I say it, even experienced first hand how this affects me, and talked at length to my own son about how this affects him, you continue to preach and blame, which is not what I expected to be honest. It seems to me as though you are locked into a behaviour you have no scientific proof for.

I am asking you to become more open minded about what creates these responses in us, why we have this attraction which is all about sex when you stop the dogma you attach to your own beliefs, and look at this as something that is not a mental illness, or a psychological response. I know without a doubt that for me it is not.

I am really sad that you for some reason have chosen to "react" as strongly as you've done with me - for the second time since I joined this forum - and I wonder just why that is.

Is it because of the things I am sharing about my own experience and beliefs which are different to yours? Or is it that you want me to repent and save myself, because honestly? Your responses seem to be dogmatic religion, good versus evil thinking. You see, I'm not trying to clash with anyone. I am sharing what I have experienced and have experienced for 19 years and three months! My son is nearly 40 years old. Do you believe he wants a Mother when he already has one? The one he grew up with and was mothered by? Honestly?

The last time I posted here, I received the same type of responses from you both. And truly, it reeks of control and blame. You do not have to "save" me. You do not have to "agree" with me, but surely, as an adult, do I really have to conform to your way of thinking in order to be accepted here? Is that what you expect of everyone who comes here? Is this what you are setting out to do within this forum? Tell everyone to have sex is bad, to be a mother/father/brother/sister is only good if sex isn't involved in the equation?

When did the two of you become God?

With love and respect
Roe

[myshadow]

Roe,
Why are you stirring the pot?
You want to be accepted here but are attacking the people who are helping others get through very tough times in their lives.
It has been shown in post after post that the having sex part
is the biggest problem with GSA.
Peoples lives are torn apart because of it.
Yet it seems you want to promote it and say its ok to do that.

SORRY but I can't agree.
And I don't think that BARB (the one who created this site)
would agree either.

We are here to help people resolve their issues and find solutions.
Promoting having sex is NOT one of them.