judging is not the answer

bryon · 06-09-2006, 12:22 AM

Barbara thank you once again for your support. I would like to reply openly in the hope of trying to contribute towards the widening and further understanding of GSA. I have received replies to posts, some are helpful and come from those who have fully experienced GSA. Some have been judgmental and condeming. The latter comes from those whose lives have been destroyed by a GSA relationship within their family. I can understand their bitterness towards those who have or have had a GSA relationship. We are not selfish although our actions may seem to be. We did not intend to cause heartache to others. We did not have full blown relationships with a relative in order to satisfy some dark desire. We are the victims of this phenomena. To brush this off with statements such as "well you made your bed now you can sleep in it" are counterproductive. We do underestand and feel for our families who have been affected by this. I am sure that I speak for the majority of us by saying that we are not on a guilt trip and seeking sympathy. I feel that we are trying to shed some light on this issue to society as a whole. If I had been aware of GSA before the reunion perhaps I could have prevented it from happening. For the judges the GSA is overwhelming and yes nothing else seems to matter. This "selfishness" though is not intentional. The hormones, pheromones or whatever the biological cocktail is is sent into overdrive. GSA causes physical and emotional changes. I am no doctor but I do know that both my mind and body went into a insatiable whirlwind. We did not make any devious plans for this to happen and some like myself are so sorry that it did happen.

LovingBro · 06-09-2006, 02:23 AM

I agree completely, constructive help is good, attacks are nothing more than malevolent prejudices.

MamaR · 06-09-2006, 07:34 AM

Let's get something very straight. I am not judging anyone for feeling GSA or even for falling into the trap and acting on it. I can't because I did the same damn thing. My life and my family are NOT "in shambles" and my half-brother and I are well on our way to a more appropriate and healthy relationship. We were given the opportunity to clean up our mess and we did just that. I have lived 61 years and I have made many mistakes..but out of all of them, this is the one that I regretted the most..having sex with my half-brother. I was 23 when it happened and I was very self-involved at the time.

I just keep seeing too many GSA 'victims' who want to justify their actions by talking about the overwhelming emotions and the facts of the legal recognition of the relationships. No legal writ on this earth or years of separation can change the fact that a brother and sister and mother and child are just that....closely related by the dictates of a higher authority over which the laws of man have little to no control...Nature.

I know of several mothers who have reunited with their children, lost to adoption, who are now totally heartbroken by the havoc that is being wreaked on their families by their reunited and raised children. Their pain is intense and they have not only lost their reunited child again, they have lost their raised child as well. All their dreams of a reunited family are dead. One mother is living with the knowledge that her first grandchild is the product of a sexual relationship between her reunited son and his full sister, her raised daughter. Expecting parents to condone this is unrealistic and, yes, selfish.

When it is between a parent and an adult child, I do think that it is the responsibility of the parent to firmly draw the line. Since when is GSA a mandate to act irresponsibly? Why should any of us be exempt from facing the reality of the damage done?

No, no one ever really means to hurt anyone...I know I didn't and I am sure that my brother didn't. But it still did hurt others and us. When the damage is recognized by the participants in a GSA relationship, too often, rather than trying to re-structure the relationship into a more appropriate familial one, I hear them criticizing their families for "not understanding" and "judging" and holding on to their fantasy for all they are worth. There is no such thing as only one right person for everyone. A good relationship depends on more than desire and explosive, intense emotions. A soul-mate is developed, not born. Try reading Peck's "A Road Less Traveled," for a good insight on the "star-crossed" theory.

Shame is a dangerous and non-productive thing. No one should carry it on their back, for the rest of their lives, for a lapse in judgment. But guilt is the way we police ourselves and learn valuable lessons. It is useful if handled correctly. No, those who are trying to correct the situation and deal with re-building healthy relationships aren't being selfish at all. But those who dwell on what they want to the exclusion of what is right and proper for all concerned are suspect to me. I can call it selfishness when I see it because I've been just that selfish and uncaring of how my wants and desires made everyone else feel. Am I miserable because I recognized this? NO...I am free and that is the way I want to stay. Am I on a life-long guilt trip? NO, again. I learned from it, forgave myself and moved on. BUT, I had to recognize, first, that what I did was defnitely wrong and damaging.

If you get many years past it like I have, you'll be able to see it more clearly. Right now, you're defensive and not eager to let go of the addictive feelings. Down the line, you'll be able to see how much the "me's" and the "I's" dominated this whole experience. Hey, we're human. But a big part of being an adult is accountability....taking repsonsibility for our own actions and learning from our mistakes.

I have posted here from my own GSA experience. When I used the terms selfish, obsessed and self-serving, I was talking about what I, myself saw in myself at that time. I see it between the lines of many a post and I have ever been one to call a spade a spade. That's not judging but merely observing. If you are insulted, so be it, but, if the shoe fits and the truth hurts........... well, don't kill the messenger.

BarbGonyo · 06-09-2006, 10:51 AM

Mama R,

Bravo....

Barb Gonyo

BarbGonyo · 06-09-2006, 10:51 AM

Mama R,

Bravo....

Barb Gonyo

Libralassie · 06-09-2006, 11:23 AM

Mama R....
Very well said....you are incredibly articulate.
I will ditto what Barb has said: BRAVO !!

Libralassie

MamaR · 06-09-2006, 01:13 PM

Thanks Barb and Libra. It is my heart that is articulate, because that is the origin of all these words. I cannot stand by and watch people either make themselves miserable by constant agonized yearning that can throw them into personal dysfuntion or observe other people throwing out all their values and consideration for all their loved ones by entering into an inappropriate and ultimately life-diminishing relationship. I have to say something that, hopefully, will help them to break free and avoid the ptifalls.

I will agree that there is much intolerance in our society that needs to be corrected. The inequities and prejudices are legion. I totally hate the way the conservative power structure makes a cause celebre' out of homosexuality. But, I have good gay friends who are just as opposed to family members being intimate with each other as any straight people.

This is not a case of a misunderstood minority or injustice. This is a phenomena that is caused by another kind of wrong...the separation of families by adoption. It needs to be understood and overcome...not encouraged and justified.

lostforwords · 06-09-2006, 03:05 PM

I would just like to share my views on this subject. Like most people who log on here, I came looking for information and support for the feelings I was experiencing when reunited with my family. As I'm sure everyone here knows these are not the type of thoughts and feelings you can share with your friends and family readily,if at all. I have had responses to my post from a variety of people with widely differing experiences,those who have crossed the line and regretted it, those who have crossed the line and come through it and those who are in the throes of it and have no regrets. All of them however have taken the time to reach out and offer support and I am grateful for that.I know that it's hard to hear what your heart doesn't want to accept and that some of the views on here are at opposite ends of the spectrum, but each of us here should be able to log on and share our feelings without FEELING that we are being judged.We should be supporting each other, having respect for the fact that we won't all necessarily agree with each other,but remembering that we all have the same experience in common and that we came here to learn how to deal with that.I have encountered some brave people on this site who have had the courage to bare their souls to a stranger in order to help and who deserve some credit for that, Heyr-Heyr and Ruir I'm thinking of in particular, two different perspectives, one beautiful and much-loved child. One final point on the subject of some of the freaks logging on for cheap thrills...How sad that this is how you get your kicks. Nothing else more fulfilling going on for you?

bryon · 06-09-2006, 03:35 PM

Here here lost for words. I am fed up with the self important so called articulates who seemed to have swallowed a dictionary and are trying to impress us with their "wisdom". Its funny but the positive stuff comes to me from other users by personal message as they too are not willing to be judged and chastised by those not in a position to do so. I think the judges have missed the boat here. This topic needs to be understood and accepted for what it is. I/we are not trying to condone our actions by using overwhelming emotions as an excuse. I'm sorry Barbara but this is not the place for me. I wil continue my crusade elsewhere. I already anticipate the "good riddance" from the old liberal farts. Its sad but so many like me need help and support and not condemnatation. Fare ye well. Oh and in some cases death to the messenger.

mwoo6i1485 · 06-09-2006, 04:50 PM

i think its a real shame people have been made to feel this way,
everyone is different and deal with things differenly some word of comfort and encouragement does go a long way in our time of need,
i dont think we use exscuses for our actions only facts otherwise surly we wouldnt be here .im not very good at puting words down but i think iv made my point.

06-09-2006, 12:22 AM	#1
bryon Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: yukon Posts: 8	judging is not the answer Barbara thank you once again for your support. I would like to reply openly in the hope of trying to contribute towards the widening and further understanding of GSA. I have received replies to posts, some are helpful and come from those who have fully experienced GSA. Some have been judgmental and condeming. The latter comes from those whose lives have been destroyed by a GSA relationship within their family. I can understand their bitterness towards those who have or have had a GSA relationship. We are not selfish although our actions may seem to be. We did not intend to cause heartache to others. We did not have full blown relationships with a relative in order to satisfy some dark desire. We are the victims of this phenomena. To brush this off with statements such as "well you made your bed now you can sleep in it" are counterproductive. We do underestand and feel for our families who have been affected by this. I am sure that I speak for the majority of us by saying that we are not on a guilt trip and seeking sympathy. I feel that we are trying to shed some light on this issue to society as a whole. If I had been aware of GSA before the reunion perhaps I could have prevented it from happening. For the judges the GSA is overwhelming and yes nothing else seems to matter. This "selfishness" though is not intentional. The hormones, pheromones or whatever the biological cocktail is is sent into overdrive. GSA causes physical and emotional changes. I am no doctor but I do know that both my mind and body went into a insatiable whirlwind. We did not make any devious plans for this to happen and some like myself are so sorry that it did happen.

06-09-2006, 02:23 AM	#2
LovingBro Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: LSW Heart Posts: 15	Judge not...... I agree completely, constructive help is good, attacks are nothing more than malevolent prejudices.

06-09-2006, 10:51 AM	#4
BarbGonyo Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 291	judging Mama R, Bravo.... Barb Gonyo __________________ Barbara is the author of "I'm His Mother,but He's Not My Son" (formerly titled "The Forbidden Love, GSA". In the paper back edition of Forbidden Love, there are a total of 20 books left in that form. "The Forbidden Love Genetic Sexual Attraction is $15.00 plus postage and handling. Postage varies in places. In the U.S. postage comes to $2.31 Austrailia Fast Slower $8.40 one week $4.05- 4 weeks New I'm His Mother, but, He's Not My Son" will now be available electronically for your convience. The price is $15.00 check made out to Barbara Gonyo 906 Ioka Mt. Prospect, IL 60056 Upon receiving the order you will be given instructions on how to obtain the book. I hope this will be helpful to all of you who were having trouble getting the book. Barb Gonyo

06-09-2006, 10:51 AM	#5
BarbGonyo Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 291	judging Mama R, Bravo.... Barb Gonyo __________________ Barbara is the author of "I'm His Mother,but He's Not My Son" (formerly titled "The Forbidden Love, GSA". In the paper back edition of Forbidden Love, there are a total of 20 books left in that form. "The Forbidden Love Genetic Sexual Attraction is $15.00 plus postage and handling. Postage varies in places. In the U.S. postage comes to $2.31 Austrailia Fast Slower $8.40 one week $4.05- 4 weeks New I'm His Mother, but, He's Not My Son" will now be available electronically for your convience. The price is $15.00 check made out to Barbara Gonyo 906 Ioka Mt. Prospect, IL 60056 Upon receiving the order you will be given instructions on how to obtain the book. I hope this will be helpful to all of you who were having trouble getting the book. Barb Gonyo

06-09-2006, 03:05 PM	#8
lostforwords Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Judging..... I would just like to share my views on this subject. Like most people who log on here, I came looking for information and support for the feelings I was experiencing when reunited with my family. As I'm sure everyone here knows these are not the type of thoughts and feelings you can share with your friends and family readily,if at all. I have had responses to my post from a variety of people with widely differing experiences,those who have crossed the line and regretted it, those who have crossed the line and come through it and those who are in the throes of it and have no regrets. All of them however have taken the time to reach out and offer support and I am grateful for that.I know that it's hard to hear what your heart doesn't want to accept and that some of the views on here are at opposite ends of the spectrum, but each of us here should be able to log on and share our feelings without FEELING that we are being judged.We should be supporting each other, having respect for the fact that we won't all necessarily agree with each other,but remembering that we all have the same experience in common and that we came here to learn how to deal with that.I have encountered some brave people on this site who have had the courage to bare their souls to a stranger in order to help and who deserve some credit for that, Heyr-Heyr and Ruir I'm thinking of in particular, two different perspectives, one beautiful and much-loved child. One final point on the subject of some of the freaks logging on for cheap thrills...How sad that this is how you get your kicks. Nothing else more fulfilling going on for you?

06-09-2006, 07:34 AM	#3
MamaR Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 55	Let's get something very straight. I am not judging anyone for feeling GSA or even for falling into the trap and acting on it. I can't because I did the same damn thing. My life and my family are NOT "in shambles" and my half-brother and I are well on our way to a more appropriate and healthy relationship. We were given the opportunity to clean up our mess and we did just that. I have lived 61 years and I have made many mistakes..but out of all of them, this is the one that I regretted the most..having sex with my half-brother. I was 23 when it happened and I was very self-involved at the time. I just keep seeing too many GSA 'victims' who want to justify their actions by talking about the overwhelming emotions and the facts of the legal recognition of the relationships. No legal writ on this earth or years of separation can change the fact that a brother and sister and mother and child are just that....closely related by the dictates of a higher authority over which the laws of man have little to no control...Nature. I know of several mothers who have reunited with their children, lost to adoption, who are now totally heartbroken by the havoc that is being wreaked on their families by their reunited and raised children. Their pain is intense and they have not only lost their reunited child again, they have lost their raised child as well. All their dreams of a reunited family are dead. One mother is living with the knowledge that her first grandchild is the product of a sexual relationship between her reunited son and his full sister, her raised daughter. Expecting parents to condone this is unrealistic and, yes, selfish. When it is between a parent and an adult child, I do think that it is the responsibility of the parent to firmly draw the line. Since when is GSA a mandate to act irresponsibly? Why should any of us be exempt from facing the reality of the damage done? No, no one ever really means to hurt anyone...I know I didn't and I am sure that my brother didn't. But it still did hurt others and us. When the damage is recognized by the participants in a GSA relationship, too often, rather than trying to re-structure the relationship into a more appropriate familial one, I hear them criticizing their families for "not understanding" and "judging" and holding on to their fantasy for all they are worth. There is no such thing as only one right person for everyone. A good relationship depends on more than desire and explosive, intense emotions. A soul-mate is developed, not born. Try reading Peck's "A Road Less Traveled," for a good insight on the "star-crossed" theory. Shame is a dangerous and non-productive thing. No one should carry it on their back, for the rest of their lives, for a lapse in judgment. But guilt is the way we police ourselves and learn valuable lessons. It is useful if handled correctly. No, those who are trying to correct the situation and deal with re-building healthy relationships aren't being selfish at all. But those who dwell on what they want to the exclusion of what is right and proper for all concerned are suspect to me. I can call it selfishness when I see it because I've been just that selfish and uncaring of how my wants and desires made everyone else feel. Am I miserable because I recognized this? NO...I am free and that is the way I want to stay. Am I on a life-long guilt trip? NO, again. I learned from it, forgave myself and moved on. BUT, I had to recognize, first, that what I did was defnitely wrong and damaging. If you get many years past it like I have, you'll be able to see it more clearly. Right now, you're defensive and not eager to let go of the addictive feelings. Down the line, you'll be able to see how much the "me's" and the "I's" dominated this whole experience. Hey, we're human. But a big part of being an adult is accountability....taking repsonsibility for our own actions and learning from our mistakes. I have posted here from my own GSA experience. When I used the terms selfish, obsessed and self-serving, I was talking about what I, myself saw in myself at that time. I see it between the lines of many a post and I have ever been one to call a spade a spade. That's not judging but merely observing. If you are insulted, so be it, but, if the shoe fits and the truth hurts........... well, don't kill the messenger.

06-09-2006, 11:23 AM	#6
Libralassie Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 10	Mama R.... Very well said....you are incredibly articulate. I will ditto what Barb has said: BRAVO !! Libralassie

06-09-2006, 01:13 PM	#7
MamaR Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 55	Thanks Barb and Libra. It is my heart that is articulate, because that is the origin of all these words. I cannot stand by and watch people either make themselves miserable by constant agonized yearning that can throw them into personal dysfuntion or observe other people throwing out all their values and consideration for all their loved ones by entering into an inappropriate and ultimately life-diminishing relationship. I have to say something that, hopefully, will help them to break free and avoid the ptifalls. I will agree that there is much intolerance in our society that needs to be corrected. The inequities and prejudices are legion. I totally hate the way the conservative power structure makes a cause celebre' out of homosexuality. But, I have good gay friends who are just as opposed to family members being intimate with each other as any straight people. This is not a case of a misunderstood minority or injustice. This is a phenomena that is caused by another kind of wrong...the separation of families by adoption. It needs to be understood and overcome...not encouraged and justified.

06-09-2006, 03:35 PM	#9
bryon Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: yukon Posts: 8	Here here lost for words. I am fed up with the self important so called articulates who seemed to have swallowed a dictionary and are trying to impress us with their "wisdom". Its funny but the positive stuff comes to me from other users by personal message as they too are not willing to be judged and chastised by those not in a position to do so. I think the judges have missed the boat here. This topic needs to be understood and accepted for what it is. I/we are not trying to condone our actions by using overwhelming emotions as an excuse. I'm sorry Barbara but this is not the place for me. I wil continue my crusade elsewhere. I already anticipate the "good riddance" from the old liberal farts. Its sad but so many like me need help and support and not condemnatation. Fare ye well. Oh and in some cases death to the messenger.

06-09-2006, 04:50 PM	#10
mwoo6i1485 Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 37	what a shame i think its a real shame people have been made to feel this way, everyone is different and deal with things differenly some word of comfort and encouragement does go a long way in our time of need, i dont think we use exscuses for our actions only facts otherwise surly we wouldnt be here .im not very good at puting words down but i think iv made my point.

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