when do you say goodbye?

[vicki]

Hi all,
some of you may know me from my past entries (some have been quite vocal) but in case you don't know me i live in England's pleasant land and have been involved with my H/B for 10 years now.. (just under a third of my life)
all through that time we have overcome every obstacle, every pressure and every lump of sh*t that has been thrown our way. I have been physically thrown out of my house (when my flat mate went through my stuff and found a love letter from my H/B) i have been almost run out of town (same incident - my flat mate was quite influential) left a highly paid job because someone found out.. moved house several times.. added a ring on my finger to prevent awkward questions about our joint surname and led a life carrying this huge secret.
but recently we have both grown so tired of it all... tired of hiding the truth, the lies, the fear of discovery. 10 years is such a long time to be raging against the world and now i feel that i am perhaps acting like King kanoot and trying to force back the tide.
this is a bitter sweet entry for me as i have tried to remain so strong and supportive to others who are still coming to terms with their feelings.. but folks, when do you say goodbye?
when do you throw in the towel and say "you know what world - you win"
i give up.
i gave it ten years and they were the best years of my life so far but i can't keep going with this.

so what brought me to this point. well, for me it was family (his to be exact) over the past 18 months they have systematically pulled us to pieces. (remember we have been together for 10 years and they were aware of the situation right from the beginning) but apparently 10 must have been their toleration cut off point. i won't go into too much detail but i have never ever experienced such a vicious and lengthy campaign against us by people who apparently care.
And the last straw was when my H/B’s daughter was targeted by these people and used as ammunition to try and separate us (secret emails and messages saying “we know how sick it is.” etc.) and she was only 16 and going through her exams…the result was that she ran away, failed her exams and now lives in London somewhere..
We have parents not talking to children, children not talking to parents, sisters not talking to brothers.. brothers not talking to sisters.. uncles not talking to nieces… nieces not talking to aunts... grandparents not talking to grandchildren...and grandchildren not talking to grandparents!
and why? all because of our relationship and some people’s inability to get over it.

So what do you do? I always believed that love and conquer all but upon reflection and more importantly when dealing with this, the answer is not so clear.

So while I try to make the right decision I want to leave you all with some final words:

If I had one wish it would be to show people that GSA is not sick.. its simply a case of falling in love with the wrong person. A relationship which society says is wrong. You can’t help falling in love and no matter how hard you try, and in my experience at least I don’t think it ever goes away.

If you are a person involved with GSA the path you choose will effect the rest of your life either way. Now you have met this person, your life will never be the same again. If you decide to make the relationship physical that path will be a hard one to tread. If not you may always be left with the feelings of what if.

If you are a person who is not directly involved with GSA but has joined this site as someone looking from the outside. Please do not judge to harshly upon us, for we do not make the clothes that we have to wear. A lot of us involved with GSA know exactly what you are going through.. living with the knowledge of the situation but not actually experiencing the immense feeling of love as a comfort to your heart must be incredibly difficult to deal with.. but please.. take a step back and in the great words of Otis Redding – try a little tenderness..
thanks for reading xxx

[5Kmom]

Dear Vicki -
My thoughts and prayers are with you and you struggle with the pain of your decision and the consequences of your choices. Neither road is easy - as you have so eloquently pointed out - and since this is a situation NONE of us seeks out, it seems too cruel that we find ourselves in it. I wish you and your HB all the peace and happiness you can muster at this stage in your lives. I understand your pain - while the circumstances for me are very different, the pain is the same. God bless you and your families!
5Kmom

[diamondbabysis]

Dear Vicki, My heart goes out to you & your family. I just had to write. I do understand about the choices you have to make & try to do the "right" thing. You are in my thoughts & prayers. It's never easy to say good bye. No matter what the reason is. After all this time you have been together.....I can't imagine letting go.. I feel so sad for you, but I also admire your courage to make it work, & it takes courage to say when it's over, too. You are a very strong person. God bless!!!! ANd love & hugs to you & your bro..

[BarbGonyo]

Dear Vicki,

I had to let you know that I hear your pain and have a question to ask you.

Would your families still object if you only stayed together as siblings?

I don't mean live together as that would not be believable to them. But to ask you both never to see each other or have a sibling relationship which is what you truly are, would be beyond being reasonable.

What their objection could be is to the sexual part of your relationship in which they may feel obligated to object to. Obviously it makes them uncomfortable and embarrased. Are these the same people who may have been responsible for you being separated as children?

Are they not dealing with their part in all of this? Are they burying their feelings and giving both of you all the blame? If so, how sad for all of you.

I do so appreciate your sharing your feelings for others to know what they may be getting into if they decide to add the sexual part of GSA to their relationship. I will stick to my feelings that we have no control over what we feel only what we do.

As long as society makes it against their rules, I don't see how anyone could find true peace in living outside the boundaries that have been put on us.

This is why I have never been judgemental about anyones relationship unless it has to do with underage children or parents who don't realize that their children no matter how old they are at reunion are coming into the realtionship emotionally as the lost child not the lost adult.

I hope others will gain some knowledge from your story as you are so brave to share it with those who are feeling the same. Please keep in touch and let us all know how your are both doing and feel that you can continue to look for support here on this site.

Remember he will always be your brother and no one can take that away from you.

Barb G

[vicki]

Wow.
What a powerful and emotional set of postings..
I really don’t know what to say, i've gone all wobbly...
(pull yourself together vic would be a good start)

Thank you to everyone who has taken the trouble to reply to this thread… and it is a thread because I haven’t finished the line yet. I’m no where near finished, I may just have to walk a different path that’s all.
Barb: just to answer your questions, the people who are ermm.. how shall I put this delicately… having the most difficulty ;-) are his sisters and their children. (who are in fact adults themselves) The elder members of the family (our mutual parents and step parents) have only stepped in to take sides after the war broke out. (something which neither of us wanted) but I guess when you are a parent, you want to protect your child when you see they are hurting.. so it’s understandable.
I don’t believe that his sisters would have a problem with their brother (my partner) if we were to change our relationship.. but for their relationship with me? well I’ve come to the realization that they will probably never speak to me again and that makes me feel sad. Only because I see how needless it is to go through life hating someone just because they have a different view from you. I don’t agree with what they have done but how can I try to have a greater understanding of their situation if they won’t even answer a letter.. When you have two people who both think they are fundamentally right, what do you do? You should agree to disagree, but when it comes to this? – that ain’t so easy.
Christ, it’s so hard sometimes to explain what you feel inside…
It’s almost like trying to show someone what the inside your body looks like without using medical equipment to explain it for you.. we all have a general idea of what its all about, but to really see and feel what my personal body is like, you have to rip me to pieces in the process.
Oh I don’t know..
I’m gibbering again….
Please forgive the delirious ravings of a mad woman LOL
Excuse me while I just bark at the moon.. it was all getting a little too serious there for a moment.
That’s better!
Hey, life is long!.. life is beautiful!
trust me it is!!! Just look outside… aint that great?
Okay so its raining… no need to put a damper on it god :-)

I know something will come up because that’s what happens in life.
Someone once said that “just when you think you’ve toppled off the edge of the world, you look around you and realize it’s only a ledge”
:-)
I don’t remember who said that but it’s stayed with me and I thought I’d share it with you.
Vicki xxxxxxx

[Red]

Hi Vicki,

I really feel for you and what you're going through right now. We are really struggling with our family at the moment too and I am extremely concerned about the negative impact they may have upon my children in the future. We have been together for two years but have only just "come clean" to my sister and my foster mum. Both seem to want to put their heads in the sand and my sister in particular appears to have started a hate campaign against me and my brother. It doesn't help that she has apparently slated me over a long period of time (without my knowledge) and has made up numerous lies about me and my brother. Our natural mother has also indulged in these character assassination periods. I'm not too clear about my foster mum's views but she has indicated that as long as we don't flaunt it, it's up to us what we do. To my sister, however, she has apparently said that she's worried about the kids. I'm sick of people being so judgemental and being dishonest to us - I just wish they'd tell us how they really feel and that they could understand but I guess that's too much to hope for.

I really hope that things work out for you Vicki and if you want to chat, please contact me. I'm in the UK too and would be interested to know whereabouts you're from?

Red xx

[Likemind]

GSA couples need empathy, not because they are a sick lot, but because they are a sexual minority with the kind of a biological need which is just a bit different from that of others. They need others' understanding because their mating and breeding preferences, however weird they may look on the surface, are as natural as those of others. It is unjust to punish them for refusing to play a role (of a blood-relation) foisted on them by the society. It is inhuman to foist others' standards of morality on them while they have their own code of ethics which does not adversely interfere with the peace and tranquility of the rest of the society. If a man could sleep with his wife and yet call her his goddess, why could n't the same feeling of sanctity apply to GSA relationships ? Why do people go wild and cry hoarse on abuses and other junk ? But, if you believe you are not guilty, be open about it. The only sin in the world is secrecy. GSA couples must take the plunge to marry before going steady in the relationship. When you form a family of your own with the person you love so dearly, there would not be this kind of a feeling of guilt haunting you. You will not be blamed for ruining somebody's married life. Being a matter of purely personal preference, much the same as homosex, its acceptance will not automatically result in its propagation.

[vicki]

Hi Likemind and welcome to the forum xx (i see you've joined us recently)
i agree with you on some points mainly that we are not 'sick' but (please forgive me here) i am a little confussed about others.
seeing as this is your first posting and as such it probably took a lot for you to write i do not want to systematically pick it to pieces (hey you could do the same with my spelling!) but having said that, i was left kind of wondering what you were trying to say...
let me explain:
you mentioned here that:

Originally Posted by Likemind

if you believe you are not guilty, be open about it. The only sin in the world is secrecy. GSA couples must take the plunge to marry before going steady in the relationship.

but the thing is.. we can't marry because what we are doing is illegal (well it is in the UK). i'm not sure whether you were aware of that or not but hey, its a bummer.
also i stummbled on this point but perhaps just a little elaboration is needed here, you talked about:

Originally Posted by Likemind

You will not be blamed for ruining somebody's married life. Being a matter of purely personal preference, much the same as homosex, its acceptance will not automatically result in its propagation.

Are you saying that if we were to err to "come out of the closet" then others will except that GSA is the true reason and therefore not blame us?

you know what.. i've just thought that perhaps you are from a country where GSA is recognised and not illegal.
is that the case?

i'm sorry to have given your first posting such a critical eye but i am sure that once we have established what the other is actually trying to say, we'll get along fine.
many thanks for taking the time to write
vicki xxxx

[Likemind]

GSA is not accepted anywhere including the country where I live. I was as elaborate as I could be. I have just candidly expressed what I feel. I don't think I can explain my point much further.

While there are a zillion varieties of repulsive perversions, why do people single out just GSA for a broadside ? I don't get it. The fundamental point is that GSA is a not a perversion. I prefer to view it as a very normal side of human hetero-sexuality. It is a paasing passion for many and a lasting bond for a few.

The GSA couples could be a confused lot. I don't deny that many of them may emerge out of it with the help of clinical psychiatry. But such treatments are just brainwashes, for they struggle hard to put people back into the so-called "cultural mainstream" of the society. They succeed in it by reviving the sense of guilt which the GSA couples would have already undergone. But they can not obliterate the GSA feelings off the face of the earth.

The fact that GSA couples are ineligible for having kids is no strong enough argument against their marriage. You can not fight the victimization and harassment of mutually committed GSA couples unless you secure conjugal rights for them. Today, people marry or live together not for just sex or children. There are many other considerations and needs. If one feels his/her emotional and physical needs are best met by a person of their deliberate and free choice, why should they be denied the right to exercise that preference ? What even if it is a GSA relationship ?

If GSA couples are braving a volley of insults and ignominies for decades and still reluctant to give up, what could be the driving force behind that stoical energy ? Just sex and nothing beyond ? I don't think so. The reasons which hold good for other heterosexual bondings equally apply to GSA relationships as well.