One-time thing - Page 2

5Kmom · 09-19-2007, 07:59 PM

Sorry - I had an additional comment I forgot to make: It has been 3 years since I have seen my son and over a year since I last spoke with him on the phone (when I tried to direct him to this website so that he could learn about GSA). I don't have the GSA feelings for him now, so I don't know if it changed because of time apart, or because of my learning about the GSA issue, or because I am devastated by the damage I have caused. I still would like to be able to have some connection with him, but I don't feel attracted to him now.

Thanks -
5Kmom

Victor · 09-19-2007, 10:57 PM

I'm no psychologist, but I am something of a scientist, so I analyse things scientifically using the scientific method. I have read books on mating and attraction. It is here that I find studies that show an overwhelming propensity for attraction to ourselves in others, or in better terms, an attraction to our parents and siblings in others. While the Westermarck effect prevents us from being attracted directly to our parents and siblings, it does nothing to diswade our attraction to others with similar features.

Thinking back on my own dating history I have been attracted to women who bear an uncanny similarity to one or both of my sisters....a blue eyed blonde and a brown-eyed chestnut brunette. The similarities were even more than just the color. It was also the shape of the eyes, ears, nose, hairline (we don't have a widows peak). The mother of the daughter I have GSA with was very much like my brown-eyed, brown haired sister, in fact that's how I described her to my mother 33 years ago.

Pheromones are real. As animals we use smell to identify relatives. The unfamiliar smell of our GSA partners tells us that they aren't directly related to us, yet the close chemical match is so close as to arouse us more than any other. We also use pheromones as cues associated with the immune system to select mates who are not closely related to ourselves having similar disorders. What that tells me is that we can sometimes have GSA for one brother or sister while not having it for another because the pheromones in the one are alerting us to a possible genetic problem should we mate with them.

Everything you said makes sense to me. My own daughter just "feels" right to me, like she belongs inside me or I in her. She's the only person I have ever been able to stand to be close to me for long periods. Even my wife, when we were first together or ever, I couldn't stand to cuddle in her arms for more than a few minutes, but with my daughter it's like I can't get emough of her. We can cuddle so close for hours on end. I don't know why that is, Either. It's one of those things I'm trying to figure out. And like everyone else I get axious about being separated from her. I can control that axiety, as I am now (she's with her husband right now 2000 miles away) but I know its there, and I won't feel right until she's back in proximity of my being able to smell her, as odd as that may sound. It's got to be the pheromones.

But I must also say that except for the sex, everything about these feelings and actions reminds me of the bonding new parents go thru with their new born infants. I think it also has alot to do with that also. It will take a better scientist than me to really figure it all out and put it in perspective.

Victor · 09-19-2007, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5Kmom

Sorry - I had an additional comment I forgot to make: It has been 3 years since I have seen my son and over a year since I last spoke with him on the phone (when I tried to direct him to this website so that he could learn about GSA). I don't have the GSA feelings for him now, so I don't know if it changed because of time apart, or because of my learning about the GSA issue, or because I am devastated by the damage I have caused. I still would like to be able to have some connection with him, but I don't feel attracted to him now.

Thanks -
5Kmom

My guess is that it's the separation. You have gotten used to not smelling his pheromones in your presence. Believe me, if he should walk into the room with you right now it would start all over again. It will take years of close proximity to him without sexual contact to cause a Westermarck effect where you no longer feel sexual in the presence of his pheromones. In fact you might have him visit, just to verify it. "To understand a thing is to have control over that thing."

5Kmom · 09-20-2007, 05:33 PM

My own theory is that the shock of the discovery and aftermath has resulted in somewhat of a PTSD in me - I won't ever feel that same way again (and happily so) now that I understand the powerful physical and psychological components of the GSA/adoption/reunion issue.

As for testing it by having my son return - ah, that it would be possible to even speak with him again! At this point, he also has suffered uncounted pain and suffering - and is, I'm sure, fearful that his family will find out what transpired between us. My actions have separated us and I see no way to help heal the situation.

My long-term hope is that, someday, we (my husband, my son and a competent therapist - or Barb!) can sit down and discuss what we know the facts to be. Then, maybe, we can begin to heal - but, until that happens I am in limbo. I want so badly to initiate a conversation, but I know he is so fearful of discovery that he would not even take a phone call from me! It must seem to him that searching for me and finding me has resulted in the worst nightmare of his life. He can't even begin to understand this until he learns about GSA.

I do appreciate the posts on this site. My grief cycles over this issue and some days just 'connecting' through this website is a comfort to me. Thanks to everyone who writes -

5Kmom

clyde-bonnie · 09-22-2007, 12:46 AM

I type in two long, eloquent posts here. Neither of them actually made it. I'm done. What a waste of time.

clyde-bonnie · 09-22-2007, 12:53 AM

Pheromones, Victor? Bonnie and I have been together less than 6 days in the last 22 years. I love her more than life. And she loves me more than that. Separation does not work. Unless you count the distrust of the daughter I abandoned 22 years ago. I left to do the 'right thing'. All she sees is that I left. She doesn't give a damn why.

5Kmom · 09-22-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clyde-bonnie

I type in two long, eloquent posts here. Neither of them actually made it. I'm done. What a waste of time.

That's happened a couple of times to me, too - very frustrating! You pour your heart into a response and then it...... disappears! Keep trying - it might not be as eloquent, but I can assure you that sincere replies to a post are helpful in any case. Thanks for trying!

5Kmom

RelaKinship4Life · 09-23-2007, 10:00 AM

Just a word of advice about typing your heart out only to have those words lost in cyberspace... i always cut and past my text before i hit send, that way if it dissappears you just hit paste and it is right there for you again. The same thing happens to me when i use hotmail, so ive resorted to typing my replies up in microsoft word first with the auto save feature on so that way even if my kitty steps on the powerbar and turns the computer off again(^#&*$%!) i dont lose anything. Hope this helps!!!

KIN IS IN
RK4L

09-22-2007, 12:46 AM	#15
clyde-bonnie Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: California Posts: 7	I type in two long, eloquent posts here. Neither of them actually made it. I'm done. What a waste of time. __________________ I am bonnie-clyde's clyde, and she is my beautiful bonnie.

09-22-2007, 12:53 AM	#16
clyde-bonnie Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: California Posts: 7	Pheromones, Victor? Bonnie and I have been together less than 6 days in the last 22 years. I love her more than life. And she loves me more than that. Separation does not work. Unless you count the distrust of the daughter I abandoned 22 years ago. I left to do the 'right thing'. All she sees is that I left. She doesn't give a damn why. __________________ I am bonnie-clyde's clyde, and she is my beautiful bonnie.

09-23-2007, 10:00 AM	#18
RelaKinship4Life Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 12	Just a word of advice about typing your heart out only to have those words lost in cyberspace... i always cut and past my text before i hit send, that way if it dissappears you just hit paste and it is right there for you again. The same thing happens to me when i use hotmail, so ive resorted to typing my replies up in microsoft word first with the auto save feature on so that way even if my kitty steps on the powerbar and turns the computer off again(^#&*$%!) i dont lose anything. Hope this helps!!! KIN IS IN RK4L __________________ True love is finding your home in the heart of another, with whom you've made a home in your heart for too.

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09-19-2007, 07:59 PM	#11
5Kmom Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 38	Sorry - I had an additional comment I forgot to make: It has been 3 years since I have seen my son and over a year since I last spoke with him on the phone (when I tried to direct him to this website so that he could learn about GSA). I don't have the GSA feelings for him now, so I don't know if it changed because of time apart, or because of my learning about the GSA issue, or because I am devastated by the damage I have caused. I still would like to be able to have some connection with him, but I don't feel attracted to him now. Thanks - 5Kmom

09-19-2007, 10:57 PM	#12
Victor Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 178	I'm no psychologist, but I am something of a scientist, so I analyse things scientifically using the scientific method. I have read books on mating and attraction. It is here that I find studies that show an overwhelming propensity for attraction to ourselves in others, or in better terms, an attraction to our parents and siblings in others. While the Westermarck effect prevents us from being attracted directly to our parents and siblings, it does nothing to diswade our attraction to others with similar features. Thinking back on my own dating history I have been attracted to women who bear an uncanny similarity to one or both of my sisters....a blue eyed blonde and a brown-eyed chestnut brunette. The similarities were even more than just the color. It was also the shape of the eyes, ears, nose, hairline (we don't have a widows peak). The mother of the daughter I have GSA with was very much like my brown-eyed, brown haired sister, in fact that's how I described her to my mother 33 years ago. Pheromones are real. As animals we use smell to identify relatives. The unfamiliar smell of our GSA partners tells us that they aren't directly related to us, yet the close chemical match is so close as to arouse us more than any other. We also use pheromones as cues associated with the immune system to select mates who are not closely related to ourselves having similar disorders. What that tells me is that we can sometimes have GSA for one brother or sister while not having it for another because the pheromones in the one are alerting us to a possible genetic problem should we mate with them. Everything you said makes sense to me. My own daughter just "feels" right to me, like she belongs inside me or I in her. She's the only person I have ever been able to stand to be close to me for long periods. Even my wife, when we were first together or ever, I couldn't stand to cuddle in her arms for more than a few minutes, but with my daughter it's like I can't get emough of her. We can cuddle so close for hours on end. I don't know why that is, Either. It's one of those things I'm trying to figure out. And like everyone else I get axious about being separated from her. I can control that axiety, as I am now (she's with her husband right now 2000 miles away) but I know its there, and I won't feel right until she's back in proximity of my being able to smell her, as odd as that may sound. It's got to be the pheromones. But I must also say that except for the sex, everything about these feelings and actions reminds me of the bonding new parents go thru with their new born infants. I think it also has alot to do with that also. It will take a better scientist than me to really figure it all out and put it in perspective.

09-20-2007, 05:33 PM	#14
5Kmom Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 38	My own theory is that the shock of the discovery and aftermath has resulted in somewhat of a PTSD in me - I won't ever feel that same way again (and happily so) now that I understand the powerful physical and psychological components of the GSA/adoption/reunion issue. As for testing it by having my son return - ah, that it would be possible to even speak with him again! At this point, he also has suffered uncounted pain and suffering - and is, I'm sure, fearful that his family will find out what transpired between us. My actions have separated us and I see no way to help heal the situation. My long-term hope is that, someday, we (my husband, my son and a competent therapist - or Barb!) can sit down and discuss what we know the facts to be. Then, maybe, we can begin to heal - but, until that happens I am in limbo. I want so badly to initiate a conversation, but I know he is so fearful of discovery that he would not even take a phone call from me! It must seem to him that searching for me and finding me has resulted in the worst nightmare of his life. He can't even begin to understand this until he learns about GSA. I do appreciate the posts on this site. My grief cycles over this issue and some days just 'connecting' through this website is a comfort to me. Thanks to everyone who writes - 5Kmom